Buying a hybrid car

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by redragon, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. bsacamano

    bsacamano Member

    Jun 24, 2012
    Ah. Got it. So you don't really need a car with a 14 hour range then. You just need a car that has a decent range where the re-fueling or re-charging doesn't take much time. If you had an electric car with a 300 mile range that had a battery that could be swapped out in 5 minutes for another 300 miles, you'd be good. You don't need a 14 hour range.

    mikebat likes this.
  2. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 3, 2013
    North Carolina
    What kind of gas powered car do you have that can run continuously
    for 14 hours?
    firebird1999us likes this.
  3. Bluedawg

    Bluedawg Member

    Nov 4, 2002
    Arizona, USA
    Similar situation here

    It takes me about an hour just to get to the Tucson airport .. then park the car ... take the shuttle to the terminal .. check in ... go through security ... wait on plane ... fly to destination ... wait on checked luggage ... take shuttle or walk to rental car desk

    and of course they want you to check in at least an hour before the gates close ... even earlier for really big airports ... 2 hours before is cutting it close for Phoenix Sky Harbor at Christmas

    I can almost drive to San Diego as fast as it takes to fly there ... about 480 miles by car for me

    We have a 2013 Ford C-Max hybrid (non pluggable) ... it is a hand me down from the in laws ... I probably would have never owned a hybrid otherwise

    It's been a good car ... although the standard 12 volt battery went dead once for no apparent reason .. a night on the battery charger and it was back to normal .... dealer couldn't find any problems and it hasn't happened since :dunno

    Great mileage around town, over 40 mpg usually .... OK mileage on long high speed interstate trips, around 30 mpg

    Not sure if I would ever get another hybrid ... maybe if I lived in a more congested area ... plenty of small non hybrid cars that can do as well around town and better on long drives

    Boris Bubbanov likes this.
  4. Grun

    Grun Member

    Feb 10, 2003
    Hybrids seem like a bridge technology between gas and electric. While I appreciate what the gas engine does for range, to me it adds complexity and expense. I can see the day coming when I own a totally electric vehicle, but that's in large part because I mainly take short trips which are murder on IC engines, particularly in winter. In parts of the northeast electricity is not particularly cheap and prices seem to rise continuously.
    hellbender and Boris Bubbanov like this.
  5. tonyhay

    tonyhay Member

    Feb 4, 2009
    It isn’t “both”. The proven world reserves are 1.7 trillion barrels. Hybrid cars and conservation have not contributed anything significant, even if the million barrells a day you have “seen” is accurate.
  6. Peteyvee

    Peteyvee Premium Platinum Member

    Mar 11, 2010
    Just East of Venice Beach
    Gas prices are not going to stay stable, especially with greed as the driving factor these days. There's also some questions about supply. See below.

    Personally, I'd get an electric. They have a range comparable to gas powered cars (>300 miles for most of them) and road side chargers are becoming commonplace.

  7. mikebat

    mikebat Member

    Jan 8, 2014
    It's cold outside.
    Bro!!! We already went over this. :)

    A gas fill up is what, 5-10 minutes max. If an electric car can recharge for another 600km run within that time, i am all ears. Make it fun the drive to, not some soul-less transportation pod.
    Peteyvee likes this.
  8. Fu Schnickens

    Fu Schnickens Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    Los Angeles
    The idea of hybrid and electric cars is fine and dandy, but if you look closely at the net energy cost of building and maintaining those cars, you may find that they are more costly all-around in the long run. How much energy does it take to mine the copper, nickel, lead, iron, and rare earth metals required to build them? How much does the energy to run them actually cost the earth? Electricity comes from somewhere, likely from a coal-fired generating station. What is the cost of that? Coal is a dirty business that will become dirtier with the advent of more electric cars. What do we do wth the defunct batteries from those vehicles? They are highly toxic, and recycling them requires massive amounts of energy generated from...coal? Gas? Oil? Nuclear?

    Supercar manufacturers are really testing the limits of technology with their hybrid programs, and compared to the massive production of the major auto companies their energy impact is much smaller.

    I say all engines should be V8's. Use up that oil as fast as possible and force the issue. Necessity being the mother of invention and all.
  9. oldtelefart

    oldtelefart Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Tropical Oz
    I've been driving a Prius taxi for the last 3 years.
    It's covered about 400,000 kilometers in that time, has had one replacement battery ($2.5K) and one water pump. The batteries normally last longer, we got a dud.
    Fuel economy has been around 6 liters per 100 kilometres. (Yanks get yer calculators out....)

    The good: They're a great town car, and will cruise on the highway at 5l/100k all day.
    It's a Toyota. Stuff doesn't break as long as you keep to the service schedule. The local taxi fleet sells them cheap after about 800,000 k's, and in private use they just keep going.
    The auto engine start/stop is great, handling is good, acceleration in traffic is good, lots of loading space for a small car.
    It's fun engaging the Power mode and dragging V8's from the lights...…...

    The bad: Interior is a bit cramped for large people. I'm 5'9" and spend 10 hours a day in it without problems, though when I get in my own Camry it feels like a limo by comparison, much smoother ride and miles more space.

    Cost: In Oz it costs about $12-15K more than a comparable Corolla or similar. Unless you're doing big mileage, the fuel savings aren't that much.

    The biggest revolution won't be the affordable long-range all-electric cars, it'll be the trucks.
    I can't wait for a world without diesel smoke.
    Peteyvee likes this.
  10. Motterpaul

    Motterpaul Tone is in the Ears

    Dec 16, 2010
    Encinitas, SoCal
    As usual, I like to look at both sides:

    First, personal issues:

    1) I hear electric cars are really fun and powerful to drive, with excellent pickup and handling, low noise and vibration, etc. +1

    2) An electric car is much cheaper than a gas powered car to fuel. Tesla owners who drive 15k miles/year estimate they pay about $540 in electricity charges, That is much less than you pay for gasoline for the same number of miles. +1

    3) The initial purchase is higher, also as the technology become more mainstream new competitors will introduce models at lower prices. I would buy a used one myself (but I tend to buy everything lightly used). I have also read that many govt subsidies for buying and charging them are about to disappear; tax rebates and free charging stations. -1 and -1

    5) The inconvenience of requiring a charge after a certain number of miles could be a drawback - depending on what kind of use you need from the car. -1

    Now the social issues:

    1) Electric is cleaner than gas - but if you think you are personally making a difference by driving one, it is much smaller than you think. Foreign nations like China have much looser emission standards and far more drivers of smog-spewing cheap cars. They also have less money to buy new vehicles, so they will be burning old gas guzzlers for quite some time. -1

    2) The concept of "at the current rate of consumption of oil we have X years" is meaningless because the current rate of consumption is destined to go down quickly. Cars consume about 45% of all oil, As electric vehicles become more common and price competitive, the need for oil will go down. As that happens the cost of oil will also go down so gas cars will become competitive again. There are too many nations solely dependent on the sale of oil to survive (Russia, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern states) where as the demand for oil decreases they will quickly become more competitive, driving price down. Ships, planes and rockets will still need oil for many years to come, however, but many industrial uses could also most likely be converted to electric. -1


    As oil gets cheaper, more of it will be burned to produce power. So, bottom line - there is nothing anyone can do to reduce the word's dependence on oil. We will use it until it runs out no matter what happens barring a miraculous discovery of a new source of energy. They most anyone can do is delay the inevitable. So, in terms of "doing the right thing" buying an electric car is a wash.

    However, if you want one for the pleasure of having one, the good news is there will likely be several newer and cheaper models coming out soon.
  11. paranoid70

    paranoid70 Member

    Jan 12, 2011
    Long Beach, CA
    I bought a Fusion Hybrid just two months ago. So far I really like it. It is super quiet... I don't know anything about the noisy complaints I read earlier.

    The MPG is more than double what I was getting with my V6 Camry. Since I often drive in rush hour Los Angeles traffic, my mileage is averaging about 43mpg. Times that I did travel to San Diego for work, the mileage was a bit worse on the open road. Stop and go traffic seems to get the best mileage - the opposite of a gas car.

    As far as costs go, it was only $3K more than the comparable all fuel Fusion. I should be able to make up the difference in gas savings in a few years easy.

    The one drawback so far would be that there is less truck space due to accomodating the battery. Other than that, there really are no downsides if you are looking for an efficient commuter vehicle.
    Bluedawg, bluwoodsman and Kevbo599 like this.
  12. mc5nrg

    mc5nrg Member

    Mar 15, 2004
    DC, Philly, Asquared, Upper Michigan
    The Tesla battery swap never showed up for the real world, just like profits.
    redragon likes this.
  13. Mark Robinson

    Mark Robinson Member

    Sep 9, 2002
    Redondo Beach, California
    It is obvious that you have not driven an electric car. Even the relatively low performance Nissan Leaf, is a rocket, explodes off the line like a slot car. Performance is not a handicap that electric cars have.
    tstone likes this.
  14. mikebat

    mikebat Member

    Jan 8, 2014
    It's cold outside.
    :) obvious? Wrong answer. Yes I have, and a Leaf is a tiny little car with a short wheelbase, and the ride comes along with that.
  15. redragon

    redragon Silver Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Providence, RI
    I should add, for the record, that I would not buy an electric car in the near term. The charging infrastructure is not there for where and for how far I drive.
  16. smiert spionam

    smiert spionam Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    North Zeamaysistan
    LOL. No. You'd lose that bet.

    A standard Prius doesn't plug in, so zero additional electricity cost. But let's just assume a plug-in Prius:

    Electricity, on average, is around 12 cents per kWh. That means that driving 15,000 miles per year, using 100% electricity off the grid, is around $540.

    A decent gasoline commuter car that gets, say, 30mpg, at $3/gal, burns $1500 in gasoline in that same year. A 15mpg truck, of course, will cost $3000 in fuel for the same distance.

    FWIW, my wife and I have a V8 Grand Cherokee and a Prius C. Covers what we need, comfortably and affordably.
    hackenfort likes this.
  17. uitar99

    uitar99 Member

    Nov 6, 2006
    Alberta, Canada
    I've read around 53 years, proven. Then there's offshore, unproven.

    I've always wondered what the real saving of electric/hybrid is.

    Every little bit helps conserve I suppose, but between manufacture (especially of batteries) and scrap, I wonder if there is any real saving in fossil fuel use. and I suppose, real emissions.

    I'm not in the industry , just a sceptic. The hidden manufacture/scrap fossil fuel use and carbon emissions (world wide) of supposedly clean power are never discussed. I live in an area that has turbines generating electricity. Wind power. Seems clean. Until you see the diesel powered trucks carrying just one arm of the turbine, many miles from a place of manufacture.

    Mining of lithium (for batteries) is a polluting nitemare. I'm sure no diesel spewing going on in those third world countries.

    and to the OP-I have had two workmates who have had their battery arrays die. A $6,000 hit.

    Yup, great mileage, quiet. Makes one feel like they are contributing to cleaner air.
  18. VaughnC

    VaughnC Supporting Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    Having an on-board, 2 cylinder, gas powered, battery charger seems like a good idea. You only use gas in an emergency until you find a charging station and the gas engine isn't connected to the drive train to complicate the drive interface.
  19. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

    May 30, 2007
    Regarding the noise comment, the Fusion hybrid that I rented was so quiet, my cousin said "Are you sure the car is on?"
  20. Boris Bubbanov

    Boris Bubbanov Member

    Apr 30, 2008
    New Orleans + in the past
    I hear you.

    Unless the occupants of the vehicle are gonna pee into pop bottles or wear diapers, the test is not whether the vehicle never stops, but how quickly re-supply can happen and how readily available and fairly priced the energy source is.

    I do like the idea of putting the eggs in two different baskets. I worry about interruptions of gasoline supplies but also someone shutting down the local power grid. If the place you are in is Ground Zero for a nuclear hit in 5 hours, and there's either no unleaded or no power, I'd like to not have to fall back to a bicycle. I'd like a hybrid vehicle with a bike stowed in back.

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