Buzz Feiten-Deal Gone Bad

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adi

Member
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1,345
Ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf? That's how I feel about a lot of these TGP threads.
I know what not to do when ordering a custom build
Pay everything upfront with a check.
I didn't need TGP to know that
For example, the guy could have a heart attack and die a week after he got my money. Or his shop burn down or a million other unfortunate things could happen.
Besides all that, I prefer to have a guitar in my hands before I buy it. I would never order a custom build from someone I never sat down with and went over the details with in person
And, I would expect to visually inspect the progress in person.
No custom builds from somebody 1000's of miles away for me. Especially if I don't know the guy except by reputation.
Money's too hard to come by.
fair enough,
my point is that some impulsive customers could save money (thats hard to come by) because of a thread like this
duality is a *****
 

'59_Standard

Member
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541
That's not my responsibility
That should have been done before this trial began
By the OP



I feel the same way about all the threads of this type that are created here daily.
I'm not trying to "create an illusion" of anything. it's how I feel about the subject
that is contrary to the TGP mindset that the accused is guilty and should be driven out of business
the thing that's upsetting to TGP is that I'm not joining the mob and grabbing a torch
I want to hear both sides of the story
why? because an accusers claim is always stronger if the accused is kept out of the equation

The problem is that not everyone is going to engage online about a business issue whether the truth is there or not. You may want to hear it but the other side may not want to tell you it. Even if he told you how would you know its the truth. Unless you have both parties facts and Judge Judy presiding its all a he said she said - imho.
 

Deven Patel

Member
Messages
530
i for one being burned by a small builder and working for a small builder who is very responsive can see both sides of this argument.
this is always a difficult topic to get a handle on since emotions run high during these issues. it was in my case since i had a lot of money
on the line. the counter side is sometimes you cannot please a person. the public forum seems to the final remedy when one party is
completely non-responsive.

at times i feel it's thunderdome time

 

macmax77

Silver Supporting Member
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13,685
not yet
since TGP allows you to create a thread like this without any evidence other than your statement, and since they don't require that the accused be notified that they are being attacked publically, I'll continue to comment as this thread continues to condemn.
You created a thread which invites other participants, I am participating.

First time I agree with El Miguel, but he is 100% right on this comment.
 

boo radley

Member
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2,349
As an aside, I can't stand it when idiots on the TGP stick up for unscrupulous manufacturers or retailers when an OP is giving a very clear account of how they got ripped off. Sure everyone has a right to defend themselves, but if someone comes on the TGP and gives a detailed and clear account of how they were ripped off, I think their is probably significant validity to the story they are sharing. Sure, there might be the rare exception, but you can usually tell when someone is being dramatic or not reasonable in their expectation as to how fast their guitar, amp, pedal should be built or delivered, but the vast majority of the time, the stories of being ripped off are presented in a credible manner. I get a feeling that those that stick up for the bad actor or tell the OP it was his fault for "paying in full" to what seems like a reputable builder would be singing a very different tune if they were the ones that were being ripped off.

It cuts both ways, however. If someone has a problem with gear from a TGP favorite, it's the opposite reaction: does the OP have an agenda? Is he a shill for a competitor? Etc.

These threads have extreme entertainment value, but I wonder how much practical value....
 

GtrGeorge!

Member
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2,037
My Anderson has the BFTS on it, and is the best intonated guitar Ive ever played. Sorry BF is not being good to the OP, but I admit the tuning system works well,imho. No tone change...I dont how anyone thinks it would change Tone...its a TUNING system, shouldnt affect tone in any way.
 

ChicagoFraize

Member
Messages
1,352
. I then tried to ask about the build and he told me he was too busy to talk. Never hear from him again. After the build date came and went I sent a demand letter for a refund. Nothing. Another letter. Nothing. At this point I have had to file a complaint with the Attorney's General in two states. Nothing. and I mean Nothing. Not even a phone call. I tried to file small claims but his business is no longer registered(in Delaware) with a personal agent as is required. This means his business is no longer legit. Then Buzzy finally sends a partial refund. He assures me the rest will be back to me soon. Didn't happen. Hasn't happened

I for one appreciate it when people report serious issues like this one alleged by the OP against BF. Most times these types of posts seem to arise only after the consumer has availed themselves of all reasonable recourse and the seller has effectively cut off communication.
 

Scott Peterson

TGP Co-Founder and Administrator
Staff member
Messages
37,792
From the rules: 6. If you feel the need to mention a bad business dealing you’ve had with a company or individual, keep it professional. Do not get personal and don’t attack the people involved, just describe the situation factually. Personal attacks and insults can draw infractions, even if you’re right. We cannot verify claims of a bad business deal and such posts are the sole responsibility of the author.
 

Kyle B

Member
Messages
5,290
First time I agree with El Miguel, but he is 100% right on this comment.
Same - @ELmiguel is right. Some effort ought to be made to 'the accused' to inform them prior to posting. The OP may be 100% right. But the OP may also be 100% full of cr*p. (I'M NOT SAYING HE IS) He could be somebody who thought Buzz wronged him in some minor way and he's looking for payback. Nobody but OP knows for sure.

I do know that every story has two sides, and that the truth usually lies in the middle somewhere.

I don't read all these company-bashing threads, but I've noticed more than infrequently they come to a very fast resolution once 'the accused' shows up.
 

guitarplayer1

Silver Supporting Member
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438
I think the BFTS is just like any other option on a guitar ... some will love it and others simply won't. It's all good ... from my personal experience my Anderson's play very in tune all over the neck and I find myself struggling a lot less when recording parts. My Fender's are ok and I can get them to work fine ... my Gibson's are a pain in the ass but they sound like Gibsons. This has nothing to do with staying in tune but rather getting certain positions of the neck to play more "in tune".

I'm not a tuning freak ... nor do I have golden ears (unfortunately) but I do feel it makes a difference to me ... YMMV. Certainly NOT necessary for playing or recording as most of the players we all know and love through the years made due without the technology. Also , for those who are hearing about the nut being moved .... yes it is in a slightly different spot but I doubt you would be able to see it and notice any difference as it's about the width of a business card closer to the bridge (at least on my Andersons).

Tune it up and play close voiced triads around the 10-12 position and it's pretty amazing .... also some of the open chords on the guitar sound better to my ears.

What that has to do with the OP's statement is beyond me but since it was brought up I thought I'd throw in my $.02.

Once again ... I hope the OP gets their situation resolved.
 

AaeCee

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
19,046
From the rules: 6. If you feel the need to mention a bad business dealing you’ve had with a company or individual, keep it professional. Do not get personal and don’t attack the people involved, just describe the situation factually. Personal attacks and insults can draw infractions, even if you’re right. We cannot verify claims of a bad business deal and such posts are the sole responsibility of the author.
Yup. The line between hard facts and defamation can be pretty thin.

That said, many of the bad deal notifications here have prevented further abuses among the membership. Anyone recall the Fat Sound Guitar saga? That one helped me directly, and it was only after reading of the first 'shots across the bow' here that I acted just quickly enough to get my $$ back from them before things fell completely apart.
 

kimock

Member
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12,520
Deal gone bad always begins with payment up front.

Good deal always begins with possession.

Possession first, then payment. No problem.

Pay first is gambling.
That’s what a deal gone bad IS, a wager lost.

Because human nature, this always harms two people at least, the buyer and the seller.
The ensuing conflict framed in ethical, moral, and legal terms disparaging to the seller after the fact, with little thought of the morality involved in the buyer gambling in the first place.


Win/win or potential deal gone bad are both “buyer’s call”.

Buyer chooses the option by pay first or last, possession first or last.

Ethics and morality aside, here’s a fun read.
This applies at every level to the deal gone bad, and the deal gone good.
The deal that benefits both buyer and seller, the deal that harms both, etc.

The whole thing is your call, buyer, every single time.
Just depends what kind of person you want to be. Pick one and own it.


http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/
 

Adam Spencer

Member
Messages
356
Point to a post where someone had a problem with a "TGP favorite" and it was the "opposite" reaction because they were a "TGP favorite". Point to a post like this where it was clear the OP had an "agenda" and/or a shill for a competitor. I'm now reminded why the TGP has become a joke to so many.

Are you kidding me? Look what happened when that guy had a problem with Lentz. I have no idea what the truth is or was, but the automatic push back from happy customers who presumed that their excellent experience precluded anyone else having a negative experience was marked, and the thread deteriorated from there...
 

Teleplayer

Moder8er
Staff member
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20,340
Are you kidding me? Look what happened when that guy had a problem with Lentz. I have no idea what the truth is or was, but the automatic push back from happy customers who presumed that their excellent experience precluded anyone else having a negative experience was marked, and the thread deteriorated from there...

Some of us that know the Lentzes actually reached out to get the other side of the story. As you said, you have no idea what the truth is or was. I'll leave it at that; I don't want to derail this thread, as it is about one of our TGP brothers' experience with Buzz.
 

Da Geezer

Member
Messages
5,037
Deal gone bad always begins with payment up front.

Good deal always begins with possession.

Possession first, then payment. No problem.

Pay first is gambling.
That’s what a deal gone bad IS, a wager lost.

Because human nature, this always harms two people at least, the buyer and the seller.
The ensuing conflict framed in ethical, moral, and legal terms disparaging to the seller after the fact, with little thought of the morality involved in the buyer gambling in the first place.


Win/win or potential deal gone bad are both “buyer’s call”.

Buyer chooses the option by pay first or last, possession first or last.

Ethics and morality aside, here’s a fun read.
This applies at every level to the deal gone bad, and the deal gone good.
The deal that benefits both buyer and seller, the deal that harms both, etc.

The whole thing is your call, buyer, every single time.
Just depends what kind of person you want to be. Pick one and own it.


http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/
So Buzz is simply better at the gambling game, and therefore should be congratulated for his excellently honed skills?
And therefore it follows that the OP should be condemned and reprimanded (which is what you just did) for trusting a well known and established entity to actually do as he promised to do....he deserves what he got because he hasn’t developed quite such a sophisticated set of "gambling" skills?

That is the slippery slope to the bottom of society and humanity.

I would never knowingly deal with a person who holds to such ....thanks for the warning
 
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boo radley

Member
Messages
2,349
...it is about one of our TGP brothers' experience with Buzz.

Someone is your "TGP Brother" after joining and a single post (well 4, I guess)? After a couple hundred posts, do they get to move in? :)

@jkr I'm not going to derail the thread either -- like it or not, there certainly ARE examples where someone has been unhappy with a guitar, or other piece of gear, from a respected builder/Co., and the crowd blames the buyer. <shrug> Miscommunication can occur.

You seem awfully, awfully angry. No one is categorically defending Buzz, except to wonder if there's another side to the story, or if he's even aware: reasonable questions. From the OP's post, the guitar was ordered in Nov.'17, didn't make a build date (what that was, the OP didn't say), and the OP wanted his money back, and only got some of it back, and communication has stopped.
 

Kyle B

Member
Messages
5,290
.

And no, there are not always "two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle". That means that everyone that posts a thread such as this is somehow not factually correct and not telling the truth. That is obviously absurd.
Whats absurd is to accept as fact a story from somebody you don't know, when you have no actual evidence to support their story. The poster has FOUR POSTS on TGP. He signed up for an account specifically to slag on Buzz. To me, that puts huge shadows of doubt on his motivations.

One of the most precious values of Western culture is the idea that the accused always is given opportunity to defend themselves. That is not happening here.
 
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