1. The Gear Page is run by musicians for musicians. We listen, we learn and if we misstep we are not afraid to do the right thing. We proposed some changes to the Emporiums. Based on feedback from members, we have decided to not go ahead with those changes. However, it has also highlighted that we need some community input into what is working and what is not working for members here. Primarily focused on the Emporiums, we'd like input on your thoughts about TGP and how things work in the Emporiums for you and how you'd improve them. The discussion thread on the is here!

    Dismiss Notice

Calling All Flamencos! edit: NFlGD!

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by BadHat, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    I dunno, I've played quite a few "famous brand" Flamenco guitars that were comparable to the Cordobas., and they were WAY more expensive. The Cordobas I've had (I now have 6 of them in various forms, also a Sanchis and a Takamine (special order) Flamenco, the latter two with CT4-Dx pickup systems.

    In 1968 I went into Ramirez's shop in Madrid, and bought a Flamenco 1A (the only one he had in the shop at the time). What I didn't know was that the guitar was made to Segovia's specifications, which had a wider than normal fretboard, which accommodated Segovia's large hands, It was very difficult to play for a beginning guitarist - eventually I sold it locally for $400, since no-one wanted here either (this was before Reverb... :) But I did keep the capo I picked from the barrel by the door... :)

    Still, if thinking you have an authentic Flamenco guitar from Spain made by whoever will inspire you to practice faster picado runs por Bulerias, go for it.

    I would not get a guitar without a pickup system (they are much, much better than they used to be.) If you do have to get such a guitar, the DYN-G pickups are the best I've found. (Especially since I've learned how to use overdrive for Flamenco... :)

    (Hint: Flamenco dancers don't give a …. about what kind of guitar you have , and rarely flamenco singers (and those that do are usually American...)

    IMO, YMMV, etc...
     
  2. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    You, sir, have won the internet today! , NGD - Navarro Grand Concert Reyes:

    [​IMG]
     
    sergiodeblanc likes this.
  3. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,429
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    I have a Special Grand Concert Reyes from 2010 that is a nice guitar. Sounds good, does everything it is supposed too. It is only cosmetics but the guitar has the most perfect pieces of spruce and cypress I have seen on any guitar. The Reyes voicing is not as papery as some, a little rounder, more tilted toward the modern if you will, but still flamenco. And up the neck on the trebles, a difficult area for some nylon string guitars, it rings out loud and clear. Navarro also makes other builder tribute guitars some of which are very crisp, some are warmer. It is interesting to play his take on different historic builders side by side as the differences can be pretty big all coming from the same builder. While they are good bang for the buck, they are also good period.

    I have a Cordoba GK Studio with factory pickup that I gig. Amplified it works well and once I got a little fret work done it has been a very serviceable utility guitar. It wouldn't be my first choice if I was going to play purely acoustic or acoustic on a mic. But plugged in it gets the job done. A while back I was in a big box store with the usual selection of standard nylon strings and one used Navarro student model. The Navarro sounded noticeably better to my ear. I can note that not every student model is a cosmetic masterpiece. Finish can be a little hit or miss. Sometimes the wood appearance is a little cosmetically challenged. But otherwise, they sound good to me.

    hunter

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Tri7/5

    Tri7/5 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Music City, TN

    Very nice you just got it? Very quick considering you just posted this thread yesterday. Blanca or Negra?
     
  5. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    Blanca. I was way ready to do something about that Raimundo. :D


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  6. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    It's not as crispy as the Philip John Lee videos, but it was the best sounding one he had in stock, and it plays very nice.
     
  7. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Nice looking guitar. (I prefer cutaways, since I like to play falsetas occasionally high on the neck, even for singers (eg, me) where I have to capo to the singer's key.

    Diego del Gastor could make any cheaply made Valencia Flamenco guitar sound fantastic, even with #9 fishing line. (well, ok, maybe not the fishing line.,..)

    That said, if you've got it, flaunt it! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  8. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,429
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Just in case you didn't know, that guitar is probably French polish. And probably a genuine shellac French polish. A nice finish for a nylon string, but it can be a little delicate, especially when relatively new. Avoid alcohol and maybe put something on your arm (long sleeves?) to keep wet off the bout. It'll scratch and dent a little easier too. Be careful with cleaners. Probably best to internet research suitable options.

    hunter
     
  9. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    If you avoid alcohol (particularly fino) you'll have trouble convincing Flamencos in a fiesta... :)

    And especially if you obsess over character dings in your guitar.... :)
     
    Baxtercat likes this.
  10. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    I'm very intrigued by the sound of Philip John Lee's guitar in that Soleares clip, the whole record, really. I really love the way it sounds. Apparently, he played a Ramirez guitar. I don't know if it's the eq in the recording or what, but you don't hear that sound often, especially in the newer flamenco, they all go for a more mellow tone.
    Can you guys shed any light on it?
     
  11. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Beni de Cadiz and Manolo Brenes por Bulerias

    Complete Bulerias starts at 2:46




    (Manolo Brenes was a highly respected accompanist - the most important role of a Flamenco guitarist in that world,..)
     
  12. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Diego del Gastor por Solea (in the fiesta room - I think - above Bar Pepe in Moron de la Frontera in the early 70's ) - Miguel Funi, Gregorio, et. al. looking on...)

     
  13. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Diego Clavel and Manolo Brenes por Siguiriyas

     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  14. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    That guitar has the sound! Is that a specific type of guitar that gets that tone?
     
  15. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    It is the guitarist, not the guitar..... and the art of Flamenco (puro)… Many tablao (Flamenco nightclub) guitarists couldn't afford expensive guitars, especially night after night until 4 in the morning.... let alone in private fiestas in small villages in Andalucia...
     
    Baxtercat likes this.
  16. BuleriaChk

    BuleriaChk Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    830
    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    FWIW, here is me hacking away at Bulerias in the late 1980's (I was just trying to get something out before getting evicted when we all lost our jobs with Star Wars when peace broke out... :)

     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    MickeyJi and BadHat like this.
  17. Tri7/5

    Tri7/5 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Music City, TN
    There are still guys playing traditional flamenco blancas out there with fire. Definitely not mellow. However just a lot of modern players attack differently than the old traditional players and palos since there are more instrumental solo focused vs Baile or accompaniment. You also have a lot of guys playing Negras now too that don’t have quite the same bite to them. Manoko Sanlucar played a classical Ramirez setup like a flamenco in his early days.

    Jason McGuire (modern player) killing a bulerias, nothing mellow here:

     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    sergiodeblanc and BadHat like this.
  18. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,429
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    In my experience, strings make a bigger difference on nylon string guitars. I run Savarez Alliance HT Classics and occasionally Corums. Strong and clear, but thin cross section on the trebles so if you like big round nylon strings they may not feel good to you. La Bella, Savarez and others make flamenco specific sets that may help since they come in tensions and materials designed for flamenco voicing. Carbons and titaniums run toward the brighter end of the spectrum. I have run D'Addarios on my gig nylons but I am not a big fan of their nylon strings. A little dark for me. Even the carbons.

    Yes, as always, it is the player too but, definitely some guitars are voiced more toward that papery crisp sound. Navarro was doing, I think, Santos braced models for a while and I recall playing one that was very traditional. But that was years ago.

    hunter
     
  19. Rob Taft

    Rob Taft Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,142
    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Location:
    NE FL
    One of the best guitars I own and I own quite a few is my Flamenco Blanca made by Seattle Luthier Ethan Deutsch. Light as a feather, super responsive. I play poor flamenco guitar but I use this for solo jazz arrangements. It sings.

    https://edluthier.com/index.html

     
    BadHat likes this.
  20. BadHat

    BadHat Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,685
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Location:
    Port Arthuritis, TX.
    Might as well chuck it all: :eek:

     

Share This Page