Can the Axe-FX rival this Kemper tone?

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crispsandwich

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So, how are we to reconcile these two conflicting, contradictory positions?

They're not contradictory. The Kemper allows effects to be placed before the amp, including EQs, if you wish.

I'm now on my second Axe FX II. I have previously owned two Kemper amps. They are both incredible, but I don't feel that the amp sims are better on the Kemper. I certainly don't feel that I couldn't get that tone from the Axe.
 

Deuterium

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They're not contradictory. The Kemper allows effects to be placed before the amp, including EQs, if you wish.

I'm now on my second Axe FX II. I have previously owned two Kemper amps. They are both incredible, but I don't feel that the amp sims are better on the Kemper. I certainly don't feel that I couldn't get that tone from the Axe.

With all respect, crispsandwich, I don't think you read my post carefully. I of course understand that external effects can be placed before the KPA or the Axe. That is not what my post is about.

What is contradictory, is Cliff's claim that TopJimi used an external EQ in front of the KPA, when he recorded his Marshall 1959SLP clip. He went so far as to call it an old "studio trick". TopJimi states unequivocably that no external effects or EQs were used for the recording. It is all right there in my post. Perhaps you just skimmed it, and missed the central argument?

Cheers,
John
 

crispsandwich

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I don't think I've missed the central argument. My point was that there could have been an EQ used in the Kemper, before the amp block. There are 4 effect slots that can be used, so an EQ may well have been used. It wouldn't be classed as an 'external effect' because it's in the Kemper itself. I don't see anywhere that Cliff claimed that the EQ was external to the Kemper. Having downloaded many commercial profiles over the years, some of them do indeed have an EQ block before the 'stack'.
 

jazzfromhell

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Maybe Cliff meant that when the actual profile was created TJ put an eq between the guitar and amp to boost it a little bit.
The quote you have in your post I think refers to the Youtube clip. When that was recorded THEN it was just guitar - KPA - DAW.
Just guessing here of course.
 

hippietim

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Clearly it's more than just an amp profile in the recordings - YouTube didn't add that reverb. My impression from Cliffs post was that he was talking about capturing the profile.
 

hippietim

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Cliff, as you are the designer/owner/spokesman for the only other digital amp that is of the same peer class as the Kemper, I certainly understand that it could be frustrating to sit on the sidelines when a Kemper specific topic or clip is being positively discussed. The temptation to chime in with a "me too", "mine can do that", type of interjection must be strong. I get it. It is a matter of pride in your excellent product and solution. Although, truth be told, I don't see Christoph Kemper doing that, when the reverse is happening...but there you go.

Ummm...did you read the OP? It's from an Axe-FX owner (one of Cliff's customers), asking how to get a particular sound. It seems to me that Cliff was just providing good customer service. I don't understand why you feel to spin that in negative terms.
 

Fractal Audio

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With all respect, crispsandwich, I don't think you read my post carefully. I of course understand that external effects can be placed before the KPA or the Axe. That is not what my post is about.

What is contradictory, is Cliff's claim that TopJimi used an external EQ in front of the KPA, when he recorded his Marshall 1959SLP clip. He went so far as to call it an old "studio trick". TopJimi states unequivocably that no external effects or EQs were used for the recording. It is all right there in my post. Perhaps you just skimmed it, and missed the central argument?

Cheers,
John

No, what I meant was the EQ was used when the amp was profiled. It was common practice in the 80s to goose the input with a mid boost. You can hear it all over the recording. The debug builds of Axe-Fx firmware allow me to measure and plot the input EQ of an amp. When I do this with those profiles there is a pronounced boost around 1 kHz. It's on every profile. The real amps don't do this (we have four Plexis and none exhibit this).
 

barhrecords

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Vintage treble boosters do the same thing, add that spike (plus add tons of really cool white noise :))

It's a cool tone to me.
 

stratzrus

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I can get that kind of tone in about 2 minutes with the Axe-FX. If you know what you are doing, it's really simple.
That's what I think a lot of people miss. Once you've had an Axe FX for a while and learn what does what, the need for extensive tweaking is just not there. I think the people who spend a lot of time tweaking are using trial and error or are obsessing about nuances that won't be heard in ensemble playing.

Cliff, as you are the designer/owner/spokesman for the only other digital amp that is of the same peer class as the Kemper, I certainly understand that it could be frustrating to sit on the sidelines when a Kemper specific topic or clip is being positively discussed.
You seem to be missing the original OP's question "Can the Axe-FX rival this Kemper tone?"

It's not a "Kemper specific topic" it's a topic that includes both the KPA and the Axe FX. I'm personally thankful for Cliff's input. Note that he did not say one negative thing about the Kemper.
 

svl

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Cliff, as you are the designer/owner/spokesman for the only other digital amp that is of the same peer class as the Kemper, I certainly understand that it could be frustrating to sit on the sidelines when a Kemper specific topic or clip is being positively discussed. The temptation to chime in with a "me too", "mine can do that", type of interjection must be strong. I get it. It is a matter of pride in your excellent product and solution. Although, truth be told, I don't see Christoph Kemper doing that, when the reverse is happening...but there you go.

I know that you were just attempting to insult him, but unfortunately your efforts fell flat and instead showcases not only the incredible customer service that FAS is world renowned for but also the completely "same as the rest of us guitar tone chasing geek" side of Cliff Chase.

Open and frequent communication is a good thing, showing true and total engagement with his consumer base over any and all discussions about the subject of modeling. I especially appreciate his highly educated insights as to how sounds are produced and achieved, as this helps everyone in their quest to get the most out of their respective tools.

I would love to see more interaction from Christoph on these subjects in any of these various FAS/KPA threads, as any knowledge he would be willing to share is most certainly worth learning.

Thanks for the tips on before-the-amp EQ boosts, Cliff. Most appreciated.
 

Powderfinger

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This thread has, predictably, gone off the rails. The simple answer to the simple question posed in the thread title is "yes."
 

mwc2112

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Cliff, as you are the designer/owner/spokesman for the only other digital amp that is of the same peer class as the Kemper, I certainly understand that it could be frustrating to sit on the sidelines when a Kemper specific topic or clip is being positively discussed.

Except that the discussion started off by a question: "Can the Axe-FX rival this Kemper tone"? If the opposite was asked I'd hope the Kemper designer would come into the tread and say "yes it can" or "no it can't". The fact that he doesn't does not mean Cliff should shut up when topics like this come around.

Just IMO of course.
 

Tonekat

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OK, so I guess I can assume from what's been said that the tone in the original video at the start of the thread can be attained by:

1) Kemper
2) AxeFX II

I'll assume that as the owner of an Ultra, I don't have the processing power to get that tone.
 

Spider-Man

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OK, so I guess I can assume from what's been said that the tone in the original video at the start of the thread can be attained by:

1) Kemper
2) AxeFX II

I'll assume that as the owner of an Ultra, I don't have the processing power to get that tone.


Obviously you don't have access to the Tone Match block.... But you do have a very powerful device capable of fantastic tones.

With the Ultra, I think the biggest hurdle will be the IR. What cabinet was used for that profile? What speakers? What mic? Where was the mic placed? How was the profile refined and what guitar was used to refine the profile? etc... You have the tools to get close with the amp block and the other PEQ tricks that Cliff mentioned. Do you have access to an IR that will cover that part of the equation properly?

Really, why chase a specific tone down to the letter? If you must have that exact tone, buy a Kemper and buy those profiles and jam on! Even then, there's no guarantee it will sound like that clip with your guitar and your playing.
 

SG_Seth

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Cliff, as you are the designer/owner/spokesman for the only other digital amp that is of the same peer class as the Kemper, I certainly understand that it could be frustrating to sit on the sidelines when a Kemper specific topic or clip is being positively discussed. The temptation to chime in with a "me too", "mine can do that", type of interjection must be strong. I get it. It is a matter of pride in your excellent product and solution. Although, truth be told, I don't see Christoph Kemper doing that, when the reverse is happening...but there you go.

I'm a Kemper owner and love it. Never tried the Axe (I want to now!)

I see no issues with what Cliff said or did. He answered the question and provided evidence. I'd do the same if I were him.

Don't see how your pointing out the fact he "defended" his clearly incredible product was necessary.
 

Deuterium

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I know that you were just attempting to insult him, but unfortunately your efforts fell flat and instead showcases not only the incredible customer service that FAS is world renowned for but also the completely "same as the rest of us guitar tone chasing geek" side of Cliff Chase.

Open and frequent communication is a good thing, showing true and total engagement with his consumer base over any and all discussions about the subject of modeling. I especially appreciate his highly educated insights as to how sounds are produced and achieved, as this helps everyone in their quest to get the most out of their respective tools.

I would love to see more interaction from Christoph on these subjects in any of these various FAS/KPA threads, as any knowledge he would be willing to share is most certainly worth learning.

Thanks for the tips on before-the-amp EQ boosts, Cliff. Most appreciated.

What the heck? Wow, absolutely not my intent. I personally apologize to Cliff if my post was taken that way. In hindsight, I should have completely omitted my editorializing about Cliff feeling the need to jump into a discussion involving a KPA vs Axe sound clip. I thought I implied that I would feel the same way, if it were my product being discussed (even if indirectly). In any event, that particular comment was unwarranted, and I see now that my wording was poorly chosen...of course he has the right to share his opinions, experience, advice.

However, my central point was that Cliff has a certain theory in regards to the TopJimi recording, as compared to and in seeming conflict with, TopJimi's specified methodology.

The way I originally understood Cliff's commentary was that he was speaking of some external, studio technique used to artificially and unfairly "improve" the recording. However, Cliff has since clarified that he was speaking of an internal, hardware-based EQ effects block being enabled on the KPA (just like can be done with the Axe-FX). In which case, the issue of whether the original "reference" amp can actually sound like the clip is (IMHO) kind of moot. The KPA's (or Axe's) intrinsic hardware and built-in tone shaping capabilities are simply in play. That just proves that the KPA (or Axe) is doing exactly what "it says on the tin". In other words, the TopJimi profile that you would receive, if purchased, is exactly the same thing which was used in the recording. Another way to look at it, is that the KPA (or Axe-FX) has actually "improved" upon the qualities of the reference amp.

It would be illuminating, however, if we could get actual corroboration if TopJimi's profile did in fact use any built-in KPA EQ effect as part of the finished and recorded rig profile.
 
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crispsandwich

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Slightly off-topic, but the level of condescension displayed towards others on this forum baffles me at times. I seriously doubt that some posters would ever speak to people in real life how they speak to them on here.
 

FPFL

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Slightly off-topic, but the level of condescension displayed towards others on this forum baffles me at times. I seriously doubt that some posters would ever speak to people in real life how they speak to them on here.

+100 to this point.
 

Prosvetlen

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I am genuinely interested in a couple of things:
--after the 80-s did they stop boosting the amp's input in the recordings, and why?
--is it a bad thing to boost the amp's input, and why?
Thank you for your time.
 

stratzrus

Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B
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OK, so I guess I can assume from what's been said that the tone in the original video at the start of the thread can be attained by:

1) Kemper
2) AxeFX II

I'll assume that as the owner of an Ultra, I don't have the processing power to get that tone.
I think you could get it but it would take more work. Where you place and how you set up your EQ blocks and choice of IR and mic placement will be critical. It may take an hour or so to really nail it.

I have an Ultra and a II. I don't try to match specific tones with the Ultra, I basically just "roll my own".
 
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