Carvin C1648 Vs. MixWiz

[Schuyler Lane]

Okay,

my band is looking at a new mixer and i have narrowed it down to these 2. Normally i know the answer would be the mixwiz all day, but it seems like with this latest generation of carvin boards they have really stepped up their features. Which do you guys think is the better of the 2 and why? Has anyone here used this carvin board? The 6 monitor sends seems awsome, i dont think we would ever have 6 monitors going, but i know we already plan to have 4 going and so that would take up all of the mixwiz's and we wouldnt beable to expand if need be. Don't think it makes a difference, but our mains we are using are the EV Live X's 15's for mains, no subs yet, and the 12's for monitors.

Here are its specs:

Key Features MASTER
- 4 Sub Groups + L/R
- Center/Sub output
- 4 Buses Compressors
- "Link" switches for compressors
- 2 processors – 256 effects each
- Effects to monitors
- 2 9 band L/R-Moinitor EQ's
- 2 USB power ports
- USB L/R recording output
- USB L/R PC input
- Rear slots for wireless options
(up to 4 mics or beltpacks)
- Ultra low THD – less than .01%
- SwitchMode™ 90-260 VAC input
CHANNEL
- 4 Buses + L/R
- 4 Band EQ w dual Mid sweeps
- High pass filter
- 6 Ch Monitor Sends
- 2 Ch Effects Sends
- Ch mute/Peak indicator
- Adjustable Gain attenuator

 

[rickenbackerkid]

Personally, I'd be looking at a Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2.

It's $500 more expensive, but it has a full set up of outboard built it - comps, gates, graphic AND parametric EQ on each channel. And decent FX. And a 16 channel firewire recording solution that can plug into your laptop. And the recording software.

 

[Schuyler Lane]

where are you finding the presonus so cheap? i was talking about about buying used vs new, you can get a used mixwiz for about 600-700 and the carvin board is 700 new, cant really find one used at the moment. The presonus board looks very very sexy, just dont think i can swing the funds at the moment.

 

[mixwiz]

mixwiz has 6 aux sends and you can route one of them for aux fed subs. The Carvin certainly has a longer feature list but some of them are pretty useless (9 band eq).

The real answer is which one sounds the best. I haven't heard the Carvin but I've not heard an analogue board in the sub 1K category that sounded better than the Wizard.

I do think that the Studio Live is going to become the mixwizard of the future. It is a bump up in price but when you consider the savings in the outboard gear one would have to purchase, you would actually save a lot of money.

 

[walterw]

it kind of already is, i'm seeing them everywhere, from the little version with DIY band sound to the regular 16s and 24s with soundguys.

if you've already got comps and EQs and whatnot (like me), a used mixwix is a winner.

if not, the presonus is kind of a no-brainer. their new hook is that band members can use their iphones to tweak their own monitor mixes!

that new digital mackie looks intriguing (check out the psychotic video ad), and is supposed to be under a grand new; you just have to have an iPad, and a router for remote mixing.

 

[walterw]

as for the carvin, a general rule is that any analog mixing board with a crude graphic EQ right on it is automatically a toy.

 

[rokpunk]

ack! stay away from carvin mixers!
of the mixers mentioned in this thread, i'd stick with the allen & heath mixwizard for the simple fact that you get 6 aux outs, a pair of stereo outs, and a mono out....plus 16 mic preamps. the 16.0.2 model presonus is really only 12 mic preamps, only has 4 aux outs. once you get up to the 16.4.2 model, then you get 16 true mic pres, 6 aux outs, and a stereo out. and while mixing on your iPhone sounds neat, it's really pretty pointless. you have to have both hands off of your instrument to make even a simple adjustment. the mixwizard is a really straight-forward mixer..no gimmicks, not many bells and whistles, yet it has a decent, musical sounding, EQ section that the presonus and most other mixers in the sub $1000 price range don't have. my suggestion is the mixwizard, unless you can save up for a bit longer and get a yamaha LS9. the 16 channel version has 16 preamps, 8 omni outs, a digital output, and can be run by an iPad or a PC tablet. value-wise the LS9 is pretty damn hard to beat. the 16 channel version is under $5K, and you literally don't need any outboard gear to have your FOH system up and running. plus, with the right D to A converter, it sounds great! even right out of the box it is certainly useable and sounds MUCH better than any mackie/soundcraft/midas in it's price range. the on-board effects are actually useable, the channel EQ's are proper, and each output has it's own 31 band graph. it's changed the way a lot of us full time engineers work, for the better! the LS9 has become the generally accepted mixer on many tour riders for small acts, plus you can find them in just about any club that has had an audio system revamp in the last 5 years or so. as for digital mackies, just say no! mackie has real problems with their suppliers providing the parts they need to build mixers. their analog consoles are toys, and what i have seen of their digital line is just about the same. honestly, stick with companies that have longstanding history in the live sound field, such as yamaha and allen & heath.

 

[rokpunk]

The 6 monitor sends seems awsome, i dont think we would ever have 6 monitors going, but i know we already plan to have 4 going and so that would take up all of the mixwiz's and we wouldnt beable to expand if need be.

the mixwiz has 6 aux outs, and even if you are only using 4 now, someday you may be on a big stage and want to run a pair of sidefills.....or you may need them to feed front fill speakers, or under balcony speakers, or a feed to a video camera, or an audio record feed. you can never have too many aux sends. ever.

 

[danonbass]

Allen and Heath Mix Wiz all the way. I ran a live sound company for a while and the 16 channel mix wiz was a staple for any smaller show.

Carvin electronics are just junk. They fall apart (quickly). When I was young and stupid I bought a bunch of their stuff. 2 yrs. later most of it was broken.

 

[rokpunk]

just keep in mind that if you buy an A&H, you are going to need to buy some outboard gear as well. figure you'll need a stereo 31 band for the mains, perhaps a comp for the mains, at least a 15 band eq per aux send (if not 31 band per), plus a delay, a reverb, an 8 channel gate/comp unit, and a power conditioner...plus a rack for it all to live in. by this point, you aren't far away from the cost of an LS9...unless you really cheap out on your outboard gear (mistake!). I come up with a total of $4200 to build this rack/mixer properly.

 

[21stcenturykid]

You could get a Mackie Onyx 1640i and use Wave multirack native for all your effects.
If you already have Waves plugins for recording it's probably a great way to go.
I don't so I'm looking for another way round it.

 

[rokpunk]

the a&h mixwizard has built in effects, but i don't recommend using them.

 

[rickenbackerkid]

where are you finding the presonus so cheap? i was talking about about buying used vs new, you can get a used mixwiz for about 600-700 and the carvin board is 700 new, cant really find one used at the moment. The presonus board looks very very sexy, just dont think i can swing the funds at the moment.

Sorry, didn't realise you were buying second hand. In the second hand area, the mixwiz would be great. Add a couple of cheap compressors for money channels, use the in built reverb and you're good.

 

[rokpunk]

the presonus boards are fairly new, so i can't imagine many of them are showing up on the used market yet. i can see people getting rid of their mixwizards and stepping up to LS9's...in fact, i see it all the time in my line of work. i haven't had a client request a presonus board yet, but i've sold plenty of the LS9's and M7CL's to churches, schools, etc., who were looking to simplify their existing sound systems. the presonus boards won't catch on in the pro sound world, simply because presonus is a prosumer/consumer brand, not really marketed to the pro sound market. they don't display at AES conventions, and they don't advertise in the trade magazines such as FOH and/or PSN. where you will see them advertised is in end user/musician magazines such as Mix and EQ.

 

[danonbass]

Sorry, didn't realise you were buying second hand. In the second hand area, the mixwiz would be great. Add a couple of cheap compressors for money channels, use the in built reverb and you're good.

^^ This.

You don't need 8 channels of compression, and you definitely don't want to compress the mains. A limiter sure, but certainly not a compressor. A single dual channel comp (dbx will do but try to fine a RANE or BBE unit used) will do you fine to start out, as will the reverb on the mixer. Upgrade effects and add outboard gear as you can afford it.

The advent of inexpensive digital mixers with (usually bad) compression and gating on each channel had made people think that they need that. You just dont. Especially if youre doing small shows.

 

[rokpunk]

^^ This.

You don't need 8 channels of compression, and you definitely don't want to compress the mains. A limiter sure, but certainly not a compressor.

you do realize that a limiter is just a compressor with a high compression ratio (20:1 or so), right? a compressor on the mains is not a bad thing at all...in fact, it can really help with the overall dynamics of a mix when used correctly, and it can help protect your amps and speakers. i'd patch in a compressor on instruments such as keyboards, bass drum, and bass guitars that tend to have a wide dynamic range.

 

[Seektone]

Lucky you Dr. Willy - a presonus and mixwiz just came up on the emporium! Good timing! no affiliation etc....

 

[danonbass]

you do realize that a limiter is just a compressor with a high compression ratio (20:1 or so), right? a compressor on the mains is not a bad thing at all...in fact, it can really help with the overall dynamics of a mix when used correctly, and it can help protect your amps and speakers. i'd patch in a compressor on instruments such as keyboards, bass drum, and bass guitars that tend to have a wide dynamic range.

Yes I do, but the inexpensive comp/gates dont do that kind of heavy compression (limiting at that point) well.

 

[rokpunk]

Yes I do, but the inexpensive comp/gates dont do that kind of heavy compression (limiting at that point) well.

The presonus ACP88, which is less than $90 per channel (what i'd consider pretty cheap) goes to a 20:1 ratio; technically a limiter.

 

[rokpunk]

^^ This.

You don't need 8 channels of compression, and you definitely don't want to compress the mains. A limiter sure, but certainly not a compressor. A single dual channel comp (dbx will do but try to fine a RANE or BBE unit used) will do you fine to start out, as will the reverb on the mixer. Upgrade effects and add outboard gear as you can afford it.

The advent of inexpensive digital mixers with (usually bad) compression and gating on each channel had made people think that they need that. You just dont. Especially if youre doing small shows.

This is, in my opinion, the bare minimum of a system that I would send out to a gig. The way it is set up now is for 4 monitor mixes, but in theory you could get 6 mixes out of it if you gave up the outboard effects.

1x Allen & Heath MixWizard 16:3
1x ETA power conditioner with digital voltage meter
1x Klark Teknik DN360 dual 31 band EQ (mains)
1x Presonus ACP88 8 channel gate/comp
1x Yamaha SPX90 multi-effects unit (reverb)
1x DeltaLab Effectron digital delay unit (delay..lay...lay...)
2x Rane ME-60 dual 31 band EQ (1 EQ per monitor mix)

Rear of rack, output panel: