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Carvin/Kiesel feud: The Hatfileds and MCoys of the Amp/Guitar world

tibone

Member
Messages
754
I still think they should drop the name Carvin entirely, at this point.
The Kiesel name is already established, and if they have that kind of problem, i would just ditch the Carvin moniker, and focus on the Kiesel brand.
 

kherman

Member
Messages
986
I still think they should drop the name Carvin entirely, at this point.
The Kiesel name is already established, and if they have that kind of problem, i would just ditch the Carvin moniker, and focus on the Kiesel brand.
They are transitioning the name. They are just doing it methodically so people realize that the old Carvin guitars is now the new Kiesel guitars.
I would guess by next year sometime they will be completely transitioned.
 

Steve Dallas

Member
Messages
8,295
I still think they should drop the name Carvin entirely, at this point.
The Kiesel name is already established, and if they have that kind of problem, i would just ditch the Carvin moniker, and focus on the Kiesel brand.
Some of us old farts who have been Carvin fans since the 70s might tend to disagree. I have a lot of fondness for the Carvin name. Kiesel not so much.
 

Guitarworks

Member
Messages
10,217
Well...two 50% owners splitting up one company into an offshoot and a gutted shell separate from one another just makes the task of surviving, much less competing, even more difficult for both of them in this industry. It certainly sounds on the surface like it was a business decision made with more emotion than careful planning, patience, and rational forethought. Kiesel now has to rely on Carvin's following to get established, which may or may not happen, and Carvin now has even fewer marketing tools and resources at its disposal than what little they appeared to have to protect their already narrow sliver of market share against Gibson and their subsidiaries, FMIC, PRS, etc., which is saying something. Sounds to me like a whole bunch of dumb going on, both personal and professional.
 

Sirloin

Member
Messages
15,577
Well...two 50% owners splitting up one company into an offshoot and a gutted shell separate from one another just makes the task of surviving, much less competing, even more difficult for both of them in this industry. It certainly sounds on the surface like it was a business decision made with more emotion than careful planning, patience, and rational forethought. Kiesel now has to rely on Carvin's following to get established, which may or may not happen, and Carvin now has even fewer marketing tools and resources at its disposal than what little they appeared to have to protect their already narrow sliver of market share against Gibson and their subsidiaries, FMIC, PRS, etc., which is saying something. Sounds to me like a whole bunch of dumb going on, both personal and professional.
Actually the guitar side of the business seems to be doing better than ever. If you follow them, they are selling guitars as fast as they can build, new larger facility, etc.

Seems like a good decision to me for that side.

Not sure what kind of business the PA side does, but I think the guitar amps are hurting.
 

bob-i

Member
Messages
8,776
His QA are kinda negative, he had an excuse for saying no to almost every request.

Also sounds like family disagreements between brothers. I don't care much for carvin/Kiesel guitars or amps myself, but I do like their PA components.
 

jbbusybee

Member
Messages
409
I don't see the negative at all, his company don't make Carvin amps therefore he can't get involved.

You'd be amazed at the amount of people who contact us about products they don't buy from us and then give us a bad wrap because we can't help them.

I think he's exactly right to close off any possible idea that they can help.

He is not Carvin Amps, does not make them and I would imagine can't get access to any info or parts anyway.

I've seen many family business's destroy themselves, in family feuds, the fact that they have spilt off into to two viable, and from what I can see growing business is to all their credit

And remember there are many US jobs they have sustained.

All power to them.

I like my Kiesel, I likes the process of dealing with them and will probably get another.
 

tibone

Member
Messages
754
His QA are kinda negative, he had an excuse for saying no to almost every request.
At least it kills rumours and it gives a clear direction in the way they're headed.
The Kiesel brand seem to be doing well in the modern metal (djent) community, and they are selling a lot of guitars to those musicians. And the whole "i'm not in the business for a quick buck" thing, seems to be genuine, at least so far, they are building american, handmade guitars, in a competitive pricepoint.
If they will keep this up, i have no idea.

But i wouldn't mind getting my hands on an Aries A6. :)
 

chrisjw5

Member
Messages
10,045
Having been in the middle of a family feud over a business, it's rarely as easy to make it work as outsiders think. Much like a marriage, sometimes divorce is the best option.

That having been said, I think they're doing themselves a disservice by changing the name AND refocusing on the metal/djent genre at the same time. Selling guitars is a business and djent is a niche, and when you change names and slot yourself into a niche that's a small percentage of oveall sales in the market - and a niche that's unlikely to survive, at least in its current form - for more than a few years, it's a recipe for disaster.

To sum up:
Carvin's direct-sell was a niche business
Changing the name will always cause some market confusion (how many people can name RJ Reynolds new name without looking it up?)
Djent is a very niche business
They have some challenges ahead

I hope it works out.
 

RayBarbeeMusic

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,853
I've been confused on the whole split thing, it was never explained very well. So there are *NO* Carvin guitars now; all guitars that used to be Carvin are Kiesel? is that correct?
 




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