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Casino feedback help

macca

Member
Messages
525
Hi all

I have a Epi Casino (the Lennon model) that I just cannot get under control. At every volume setting above 3 on the guitar, the thing feedbacks uncontrollably. This happens even when I don't have much gain up on my amp (and I've tried it with numerous amps). I've tried changing my position in relation to the amp, but that doesn't help either. I should add that I don't have this problem with my other hollow body (a 6120) -- I can get feedback with that, but it is pretty easy to control/avoid. The Casino, on the other hand, is pretty much impossible to use at this point.

Any suggestions? Is there some way-different technique needed to play one of these suckers? Is there something wrong with my pickups -- maybe they need potting?

thanks
 

Wannabe

Member
Messages
30
Been lurking around here for a while, but this is my first post. Though I could help.

I own an Epiphone Sorrento (which is basically the same guitar, but with a diffrent shape), and I also had this problem. I tried several things to fix it, but the only thing that worked is switching the chrome pickupcovers to plastic ones.
You probably think 'how could that work?' Well, the chrome covers vibrate when your playing, which results in feedback. The plastic covers also vibrate, but because they are more flexible, they wont feedback.

If you like the cosmetic aspects of the chrome covers you could also try waxpotting them.

Good luck!
 

HRydarcik

Member
Messages
927
I had a Casino a few years ago and it did the same thing...so I changed the pups to a combination of Duncan Antiquities and Fralins...both had the black plastic covers...and it didn't help the problem one bit...those guitars are good at cleaner or just a tiny bit dirty type tones, but not so good for the type stuff I like to play (ZZ Top, ACDC, Allmans, Mountain, etc.). I ended up selling the guitar.
 

benjammin420

Member
Messages
1,564
ive heard of putting a towel or some other sort of padding into the f-holes on hollowbodys to reduce feedback. it worked for my friend w/ his Emperor, but i cant say what kind other affects this would have on the tone/sustain/etc
 

g6120

Member
Messages
309
i had a elitist casino and if i was in the wrong position it would feedback at certain times :agree. it could very well not do that in a different room ?

ive got an es 335 now which has a center block down the middle and every once in a while i get feedback but not as often as the casino .

sometimes if the bass responce is too high it very well could be adding to the problem lower the bass on the amp .
 

mad dog

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,986
Believe it or don't. pushing a couple black garbage bags (empty of course, and do it carefully) in through one of the f-holes can help. I think by disrupting air flow. But the cosmetics are suspect. There is a fellow out on the web somewhere who crafts foam f-hole plugs to your specs. I'm sure that works better, and would almost certainly look better.
 

macca

Member
Messages
525
thanks for the response so far

I had thought about stuffing something inside, but I am still concerned that there is just something wrong with this guitar. Seems like there are plenty of folks who have used these guitars without erupting in feedback every time (and to drive a distorting amp, too, not just in a perfectly clean application) so it makes me think that there is something wrong here. Or maybe everyone stuffs, I don't know.

so far, I've got stuffing, plastic covers, and potting as options ... anyone have any other ideas, or feel strongly as to which of these I should try. Stuffing seems the easiest thing to try (so I will) but I am concerned that approach will sort of defeat the reason for having a hollow body in the first place.
 

ethandt

Member
Messages
1,911
I have a Casino and I stuffed the inside with foam padding and it does help. It still will feedback at certain volumes but I think it is much more controllable.
 

dirk_benedict

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,467
can you elaborate on what kind of amp/rig you are using? And are you getting microphonic or harmonic feedback? Microphonic = harsh shrill squealing, not musical, very unpleasing. Harmonic = 'good' feedback, can be used to great music effect.

I have Epi Casino reissue dating from '95 and had similar problems. Both pickups have been replaced over the years (with black plastic covered 'dog ear' style pups). Basically the original shat out after so long and started making all sorts of microphonic sounds and eventually died...something about the winding of them makes the coils very susceptible to damage..that and the metal pup covers are attached in a very shoddy way (I think just glued on or something), such that, at least on mine, re-using them in the new pups wasn't an option.

I'd say have the tech put some new pups in there, and install a new switch and input jack while they're at it. You should be golden after that.

It's really too bad that the electronics of those guitars are such shite. They play great (best action I've ever had on a guitar..never needs adjustments..and this is after I snapped the headstock off in an unfortunate accident).
 

mark norwine

Member
Messages
17,159
Welcome to the world of fully-hollow guitars.

Shove an old teeshirt into it & forget it.

Or, if this is just an issue when gigging loudly, cover the F holes with gaffers (NOT duct) tape during gigs
 

macca

Member
Messages
525
well, i tried stuffing some socks in it and that didn't really affect anything, still unable to tame this beast unless I turn down the volume down so low that the tone is thinned way out

also, the feedback is the unpleasant, harsh, shrill, squeaking kind, nothing musical about it at all

seems like these pickups are just microphonic and needed to be potted (I'll try the plastic covers, too, but plenty are able to play these w/ the metal covers, so there must be something else wrong with this guitar)
 

dirk_benedict

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,467
well, i tried stuffing some socks in it and that didn't really affect anything, still unable to tame this beast unless I turn down the volume down so low that the tone is thinned way out

also, the feedback is the unpleasant, harsh, shrill, squeaking kind, nothing musical about it at all

seems like these pickups are just microphonic and needed to be potted (I'll try the plastic covers, too, but plenty are able to play these w/ the metal covers, so there must be something else wrong with this guitar)
Get new pickups...or you can do what I did- have a tech figure out which of the pups is microphonic and swap that one out now. You can get a metal-dog-eared p-90 that will retain the look you want. I guarantee the other one will blow down the line.
 

macca

Member
Messages
525
I have a set of Lollar p90's that I think I'll try but will need pickup covers -- anyone know where I can find Casino plastic pickup covers? I believe I can't use normal plastic dogear covers because the Casino covers are angled.

also, I'm assuming "normal" p90's will fit these covers, anyone know if this is correct?

I think I'm going to have tech do this for me; I have swapped out tons of pickups, but HATE doing it on semis or hollows like this.

thanks
 

Whiskeyrebel

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
30,385
As a start you could try packing something inside the pickup cover itself to damp it, rather than potting the winding. You wouldn't have to unsolder anything, just unstring and unscrew.
Poster gum might not work because they use that to hold contact piezo ('bottle cap') pickups onto guitars and it transfers vibration. You could try non-hardening plumber's putty. Maybe try the rope putty gasket material that they use for installing speakers.
You also could trap some rubber washers or grommets between the guitar top and pickup covers to decouple the covers from the top.
 

dirk_benedict

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,467
I have a set of Lollar p90's that I think I'll try but will need pickup covers -- anyone know where I can find Casino plastic pickup covers? I believe I can't use normal plastic dogear covers because the Casino covers are angled.

also, I'm assuming "normal" p90's will fit these covers, anyone know if this is correct?

I think I'm going to have tech do this for me; I have swapped out tons of pickups, but HATE doing it on semis or hollows like this.

thanks
This is what I have on mine...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PRPC040
 

johnh

Member
Messages
4,671
I saw an article recently in Vintage Guitar where Dan Erlewine made some wooden "plugs" for the f holes. They were basically pieces of wood exactly the same shape as the f holes, and were designed to cut down the feedback. They had little handles on them so you could easily take them in and out.

I do think that something must be up with your setup. I know these guitars are prone to feedback, but a friend of mine used to lead worship using one with an AC30 without any problems.

Are you using a compressor? If so try switching that off to lower the front end gain on the amp.
 

macca

Member
Messages
525
I've tried it with numerous different amps, no pedals, various string types, with a stuffed body, and packing the pickups to try to cut down on vibrations. Nothing came close to solving the problem, so at this point I assume it just must be the pickups. I am going to replace the pickups with Lollars and plastic covers and see what happens.

thanks everyone
 

Deadduck

Member
Messages
627
Hmm, I don't really have that much problem with my Casino, but my amp is behind me about 15 feet or so. I play modern Praise and Worship, so it isn't real high gain but typical rock tones.
 




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