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Catalinbread Belle Epoch Deluxe

DisasterArea

Owner, Disaster Area Designs and Alexander Pedals
Messages
2,282
You're talking about the expression pedal pot as long as it changes across the sweep it's fine. The BED side just sends current and gets current back, based on the difference between the two it sets the delay time. The gen3 will approximate the value to send back, it might or might not be accurate. Does it have to be exactly on the money?
We're sending a control voltage (CV) signal to the Belle Deluxe's expression port. The range of delay times is not perfectly linear but it's close enough for what we want to do, so the tap function works well. We can set the tempo to roughly a 2 millisecond resolution which is not ideal but we're limited by how the BED resolves the pot position anyway.

The BED is also kind of an odd bird in that it wants to see the CV on the ring of the jack rather than the tip. To accommodate that, I designed in a couple of options that let you use either the tip or the ring of the MultiJack for sending the CV. That will let you control stuff like the Old Blood Noise Black Fountain and Mondegreen that expect the signal on the tip.

The setup on the SMARTClock itself is pretty simple - you set the "D" output up as CV Ring, then set CV min and max to the delay times you want to use. Once that is configured you just tap like normal, and the BED will follow along. You can even tap quarter notes and use the divisions option in the SMARTClock to set the delay time to dotted 8th, 8th, or triplets.

Interestingly we think that this same setup will also work on the El Capistan, providing a zero-modification external tap tempo option. Obviously you'll need to tell the SMARTClock which range of the El Cap you're in since the delay time varies but it beats drilling a hole in your $300+ pedal.
 

photograft

Member
Messages
344
We're sending a control voltage (CV) signal to the Belle Deluxe's expression port. The range of delay times is not perfectly linear but it's close enough for what we want to do, so the tap function works well. We can set the tempo to roughly a 2 millisecond resolution which is not ideal but we're limited by how the BED resolves the pot position anyway.

The BED is also kind of an odd bird in that it wants to see the CV on the ring of the jack rather than the tip. To accommodate that, I designed in a couple of options that let you use either the tip or the ring of the MultiJack for sending the CV. That will let you control stuff like the Old Blood Noise Black Fountain and Mondegreen that expect the signal on the tip.

The setup on the SMARTClock itself is pretty simple - you set the "D" output up as CV Ring, then set CV min and max to the delay times you want to use. Once that is configured you just tap like normal, and the BED will follow along. You can even tap quarter notes and use the divisions option in the SMARTClock to set the delay time to dotted 8th, 8th, or triplets.

Interestingly we think that this same setup will also work on the El Capistan, providing a zero-modification external tap tempo option. Obviously you'll need to tell the SMARTClock which range of the El Cap you're in since the delay time varies but it beats drilling a hole in your $300+ pedal.
I’m so glad you guys made this a thing. This way Catalinbread can design their pedals the way they want, and people who want tap tempo can sort of get what they want. I’ve been saying this should be doable, I just didn’t know which products on the market could actually do it.
 

Orwells Ghost

Member
Messages
365
We're sending a control voltage (CV) signal to the Belle Deluxe's expression port. The range of delay times is not perfectly linear but it's close enough for what we want to do, so the tap function works well. We can set the tempo to roughly a 2 millisecond resolution which is not ideal but we're limited by how the BED resolves the pot position anyway.

The BED is also kind of an odd bird in that it wants to see the CV on the ring of the jack rather than the tip. To accommodate that, I designed in a couple of options that let you use either the tip or the ring of the MultiJack for sending the CV. That will let you control stuff like the Old Blood Noise Black Fountain and Mondegreen that expect the signal on the tip.

The setup on the SMARTClock itself is pretty simple - you set the "D" output up as CV Ring, then set CV min and max to the delay times you want to use. Once that is configured you just tap like normal, and the BED will follow along. You can even tap quarter notes and use the divisions option in the SMARTClock to set the delay time to dotted 8th, 8th, or triplets.

Interestingly we think that this same setup will also work on the El Capistan, providing a zero-modification external tap tempo option. Obviously you'll need to tell the SMARTClock which range of the El Cap you're in since the delay time varies but it beats drilling a hole in your $300+ pedal.
Amazing work! Will this functionality extend to other non-tap-tempo delays with expression capability?
 

DisasterArea

Owner, Disaster Area Designs and Alexander Pedals
Messages
2,282
Amazing work! Will this functionality extend to other non-tap-tempo delays with expression capability?
There are some caveats but in many cases yes. If your delay can cope with a control voltage that ranges from 0-3.3V then we can probably handle it. Check with your builder to be sure.

I’m so glad you guys made this a thing. This way Catalinbread can design their pedals the way they want, and people who want tap tempo can sort of get what they want. I’ve been saying this should be doable, I just didn’t know which products on the market could actually do it.
You're very welcome. I'm not sure what you mean by "sort of" in the message above. This does allow for tap tempo with selectable subdivisions for the Belle Epoch Deluxe, which in my mind was a big omission in an otherwise excellent pedal.
 

photograft

Member
Messages
344
You're very welcome. I'm not sure what you mean by "sort of" in the message above. This does allow for tap tempo with selectable subdivisions for the Belle Epoch Deluxe, which in my mind was a big omission in an otherwise excellent pedal.
I only say Sort Of because I don’t know how 100% accurate the time can be tapped. I assume it’s not as precise as a purpose built digital delay with tap tempo.
 

DisasterArea

Owner, Disaster Area Designs and Alexander Pedals
Messages
2,282
I only say Sort Of because I don’t know how 100% accurate the time can be tapped. I assume it’s not as precise as a purpose built digital delay with tap tempo.
Ah, I understand you now.

The Belle Deluxe appears to have a delay time range between 15 and 666ms in the first mode. I haven't extensively tested the other modes but they seem similar. The SMARTClock has 8-bit resolution on the tap tempo output voltage, which means that we can set the delay time in 2.55ms steps. That works out to better than 1bpm in the longer delay range and around 3bpm accuracy at very short delay times (400bpm on up.) Not perfect but for most of the tempos you'll be using it's more than good enough.

Pro tip - you can expect your tempo to drift no matter what you use, but it'll probably be worse with the CV method. To combat that, we have a "resync" feature built in to the SMARTClock Gen3: Just tap once on the footswitch, and the SCG3 will re-send taps to all of your devices. If you notice the drift, just tap once and everything should sync back up, bang bang bang.
 

Buddy67

Member
Messages
1,355
Ah, I understand you now.

The Belle Deluxe appears to have a delay time range between 15 and 666ms in the first mode. I haven't extensively tested the other modes but they seem similar.
They advertise it as being 80-800ms but (like the original Belle), it seems to be shorter than that, in comparison to other delays at least.
 

erksin

Member
Messages
23,158
On a 24 bit chip, the sample rate is 32768 samples per second. The delay time is specifically expressed in terms of 80mS for the low and 800mS for the high, using a time and sample rate calculation.

A 15mS minimum delay time is imperceptible as a distinct repeat - that's chorusing. The minimum repeat setting on the BED is absolutely distinct and clearly perceived.

But you know, WTF do we know.
 
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Buddy67

Member
Messages
1,355
On a 16 bit chip, the sample rate is 32768 samples per second. The delay time is specifically expressed in terms of 80mS for the low and 800mS for the high, using a time and sample rate calculation.

A 15mS minimum delay time is imperceptible as a distinct repeat - that's chorusing. The minimum repeat setting on the BED is absolutely distinct and clearly perceived.

But you know, WTF do we know.
Good point. Even as high as 30ms is considered chorus. I was thinking moreso the top end seemed shorter than 800ms, but for real, WTF do I know. ;)
But just for clarification: I thought the BED used a 24 bit chip?
 

DisasterArea

Owner, Disaster Area Designs and Alexander Pedals
Messages
2,282
Good point. Even as high as 30ms is considered chorus. I was thinking moreso the top end seemed shorter than 800ms, but for real, WTF do I know. ;)
But just for clarification: I thought the BED used a 24 bit chip?
Bits and sampling frequency are not the same. I'm not getting 800mS on my unit here in the shop, so that is why I mentioned the shorter delay time. Perhaps there are others that are getting 800ms, but it's not important because we have an adjustable range in the controller so you can tailor it to any situation.
 

hippieboy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,295
I'm not getting 800mS on my unit here in the shop, so that is why I mentioned the shorter delay time. Perhaps there are others that are getting 800ms, but it's not important because we have an adjustable range in the controller so you can tailor it to any situation.
I totally believe you man.
 

Buddy67

Member
Messages
1,355
The Belle Deluxe appears to have a delay time range between 15 and 666ms in the first mode.
On a 16 bit chip, the sample rate is 32768 samples per second. The delay time is specifically expressed in terms of 80mS for the low and 800mS for the high, using a time and sample rate calculation.
I just synced my BED to a digital metronome: max delay time is 90bpm which translates to...667ms. Which is about what my OG Belle maxed out at.
 
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photograft

Member
Messages
344
I will say that the minimum time on my Deluxe does seem shorter than the minimum delay on my classic Belle Epoch. But I could be imagining things
 

rjaneshek

Member
Messages
420
I just synced my BED to a digital metronome: max delay time is 90bpm which translates to...667ms. Which is about what my OG Belle maxed out at.
Was your metronome perhaps on a desk, table, shelf or some other surface above the floor where the pedal is? Perhaps the differential in gravity between the distance of the pedal and the metronome respectively from the earths center of mass could account for this time discrepancy. Theory of relativity explains all.

:hide2
 

Buddy67

Member
Messages
1,355
Was your metronome perhaps on a desk, table, shelf or some other surface above the floor where the pedal is? Perhaps the differential in gravity between the distance of the pedal and the metronome respectively from the earths center of mass could account for this time discrepancy. Theory of relativity explains all.

:hide2
No I used my Gravitronator to teleport the metronome into the heart of the BED. No latency!
 




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