Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret Inop

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Cavscout, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Cavscout

    Cavscout Member

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    I have heard great things about these DLS pedals and was lucky enough to have one included with a recent guitar purchase.
    It doesnt work though.
    I opened it up for a look at found what looks like a burned diode or resistor.
    I would like to replace it but I cannot find a schematic or parts list.
    The board says PCB by Jack Deville.
    I think Jack is a member on here.
    Jack any help would be greatly appreciated

    Thanks
     
  2. Cavscout

    Cavscout Member

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    I cant figure out how to post photos. It seems a URL is the only way ?
     
  3. sickboy79

    sickboy79 Member

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    That's how I do it.
     
  4. theinteriorleag

    theinteriorleag Member

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    What what what?

     
  5. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Silver Supporting Member

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    I think almost all of their schematics are online but I can’t remember where. Might be in the lawsuit thread...
     
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  6. coltonius

    coltonius Señor Member Silver Supporting Member

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    If it’s a burned diode (near the DC jack, right?), that’s likely the protection diode. Replacing it with the proper value should get it back up and running, just keep in mind the pedal is rated for 9-18v performance, so something higher than that.
     
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  7. Vaibhav Joshi

    Vaibhav Joshi Member

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    You can use your Google Drive & I've seen people using Instagram as well, not sure about that one.
     
  8. Vaibhav Joshi

    Vaibhav Joshi Member

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    I don't know about Jack DeVille but @coltonius also designs & builds pedals.
    Maybe you can get in touch with him & try to troubleshoot further.
    Is it a used pedal ?
     
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  9. coltonius

    coltonius Señor Member Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the shoutout! “Designs” is a bit of a stretch, but I’ll take builds, modifies, and occasionally repairs. :D

    It seems ole JD has helped with the PCB wizardry on many C’bread pedals- from the DLS MKIII to the Formula 5F6 (same pedal, essentially). I think he was contracted though, so I’m not sure he’s permitted to speak about specifics of said pedals since they’re Catalinbread’s IP.
     
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  10. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    I've looked at 2 different schematics online and both have a 1N4001 in the protection diode position.

    I'm sure the 1N4001 can handle over 50V reverese without failing... 18 volts should be just fine there... hopefully none of the rest of the FETSs got damaged... likely some one hooked it up to a pos-ground power supply (like for the old PNP germanium fuzzes) and fried the protection.
     
  11. Vaibhav Joshi

    Vaibhav Joshi Member

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    Ah ok, I saw someone share info on a dual Zendrive & another pedal which you had made, very neat work. You're welcome.
    It's cool to have experts around.
     
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  12. amz-fx

    amz-fx Supporting Member

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    It can handle 50v but only 1A, so if you connect it in reverse to an adapter that can put out more than 1A, the diode will begin to heat up and fail in less than a minute. There is no current-limiting resistor in series with the power input (in the schematics I found on Google), so the diode will act like a fuse!

    Best regards, Jack
     
  13. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    And that's apparently just what it did.
    Then the fate of the rest of the circuit depends on the failure mode of that diode.
    If it opens (goes to open-circuit/infinite resistance) then any voltage (including the bad one) hits all the FETs in that pedal.
    If it shorts out (becomes a zero-ohm jumper of high current carrying ability) then it shorts out the power tap it is connected to.
    If it shorts with a resistance value, then it (a) won't be a reverse-voltage protection if applied again, and (b) becomes another resistor across the power supply, increasing the current used by the pedal. ?If it generate sufficient heat, it can also cause oxidation of the solder mask/PCB substrate (usually FR4, or at least it was bitd) and this can result in the creation of another 'resistor' in the form of the notorious 'carbon trace'... that bubbled, brown-yellow/black, scorched appearance underneath the doomed diode and, well, just 'add that to the schematic' and you get a scenario like the partil-shorting of the protection diode... and that's a nasty, noisy 'resistor', likely to make a minor mess of the +9 available throughout the rest of the board.

    BITD, working on the first AED's clinical and FDA-approval devices, we saw quite a few 'failure modes' for the various levels of protection we had in there. It is amazing what 5-7 kV with a momentary (10-40 msec) 40 Amps can do to components and PCBs.


    EDIT :

    ...a sentiment I rarely raise here...

    I hope none of us EVER needs an AED,
    but I sure am glad the (more robust and reliable) descendants of the old CRC Heart-Aid are out there in all those public buildings, malls, airplanes, offices, gyms (they should be ) ... s*** I should probably have one at home, having recently passed 60. Folks, considering the demographics here, I'm preachin' to the Chorus.

    The stats say there are about 800THOUSAND heart attacks each year, and NO, they aren't all "old fat people".
    That is about 2-2.4% of the entire population.
    Each Year.
    14% die.
    They hit many folks as they try to get into/maintain physical condition. Some of the broadest risk factors are genetic. When analyzing how well the device worked, we used to read the recorded EKG on one channel and listen to the audio of the scene which was recorded on the other channel (simple cassette tape). So often, we would hear the tears and pleas of spouses and the victim's kids.

    Anyway, if you see a blank wall, almost anywhere, it's a good place for an AED.

    If the heart can be restarted for another 15-20 minutes, then there's a better chance that the brain won't lose more cells, that the EMTs can get you to proper facilities, and that the ER folks can get you stabilized and treated.

    More AEDs is a good thing. They still follow 95% of the protocol we established BITD.
    a) Don't move the leads/patient while analysis is going on,
    b) listen to the unit when it tells you whay yo do, and
    c) GTFaway when the defib is applied.
    That's one ride you don't want to take unless you need it...I speak from personal experience there. Besides, if you need it, you are likely not to remember anything about the actual defib event... you're 'dead'... or at least deeply unconscious.

    Sorry for the tangent.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  14. JackfromAK

    JackfromAK Gold Supporting Member

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    The environment I used to work in had AEDs everywhere. It's one of the only things I miss.
     
  15. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    w/in 3 min = saves most brain cells
    w/in 8 min = a failrly good chance at an ok life post-tx

    As Albert Einstein never said : "Time and Distance Matters.



    Hey, CB... here's an idea for your next pedal... build in an AED.
    OK, it won't fit in the micro-size enclosure (unless we're going implantable)

    HEY WAITAMINUTE : I hearby patent the implantable//upgradable Toneprint-style pedal device for musicians, with a free AED onboard :

    - Us forgetful old TGPers will ALWAYS have immediate access to our favorite delays and modulation.
    - no more fears about someone stealing the pedalboard.
    - Guitar now plugs into US = shortest possible cable.
    - it is literally "My Tone"
    - Defib on hand pronto if our astonishing skills (or lack thereof) suddenly stops the heart.

    ... I gotta talk to Jack about this one... it's way above CB's pay grade.
     
  16. JackfromAK

    JackfromAK Gold Supporting Member

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    Might be room onboard this little fellow?
     
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  17. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    I dunno.


    They usually like to put those implants in a flashy area...
    ... and that form factor is gonna require a lot of flesh.


    In the chest, where implantable debibrillators go, that might make a engineer's pocket-protector look downright tidy and small.


    There is another spot it might go,
    but even then I'd expect some wardrobe malfunctions :







    [​IMG]
     
  18. Cavscout

    Cavscout Member

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    So I replaced the diode but I am not getting a reaction out of the pedal other than on and off.
    In other words, when I click the button it gives me sound or no sound with no effects.
     
  19. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    When you hear sound, it is probably in true-Bypass.

    this may sound trivial, but it's a initial indicator: When you stomp the effect ON, does the LED light up?
    If it does, then you may still have a filtered V+ on board... if it does not, then either a trace or other filter-component may have roasted.

    Look for R18 and C4 as possible culprits.
    Likewise Q3/R6 or Q6/R10

    Not to insult your electronics intelligence quotient, but you did get the protection diode installed pointing in the right direction, right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  20. OotMagroot

    OotMagroot Member

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    Do they make a version of an AED that I can hang in my cubicle at work?
     

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