Catalinbread tap tempo pedal

TheReplicant

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791
I wonder, how it works with older ones.
Because, since it allows subdivisions, looks like firmware always supported this function. So, is it was original intention to release external tap?
No, old school Catalinbread were pretty anti-tap tempo. it’s just that the way CV controls the clock it allows for certain tap setups to work.
 

JesterR

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2,810
No, old school Catalinbread were pretty anti-tap tempo. it’s just that the way CV controls the clock it allows for certain tap setups to work.
Well CV from tap tempo has some dedicated values, but how it makes delay knob subdivision knob? Pedal should know, that there is not expression pedal connected.
With Disaster Area, you have all "brains" inside the tap pedal itself, so it's just generates proper CV. But here, it's looks like basic tap tempo, which interacts with pedal's core firmware.
 

TheReplicant

Member
Messages
791
Well CV from tap tempo has some dedicated values, but how it makes delay knob subdivision knob? Pedal should know, that there is not expression pedal connected.
With Disaster Area, you have all "brains" inside the tap pedal itself, so it's just generates proper CV. But here, it's looks like basic tap tempo, which interacts with pedal's core firmware.
They must’ve figured out a way to interact with the time knob on that manner within the tap unit, because nothing’s changed within the BED and I guarantee you that 5 years ago Howard didn’t include a provision for tap tempo.
 

stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
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2,852
They must’ve figured out a way to interact with the time knob on that manner within the tap unit, because nothing’s changed within the BED and I guarantee you that 5 years ago Howard didn’t include a provision for tap tempo.
It’s ‘just’ an external time knob, right? The device calculates a “tempo” based on the taps and then determines the “time” setting to send to exp - which could be one for one or adjusted based on the user’s desired division (which is just some math). I imagine it’s similar to the way the amaze1 works, which makes me curious if the amaze1 would work with the BED…

Well CV from tap tempo has some dedicated values, but how it makes delay knob subdivision knob? Pedal should know, that there is not expression pedal connected.
With Disaster Area, you have all "brains" inside the tap pedal itself, so it's just generates proper CV. But here, it's looks like basic tap tempo, which interacts with pedal's core firmware.
Oh. What makes you think it is interacting with the firmware rather than sending a time setting via exp? (I don’t know enough about this stuff but like to learn)
 
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JesterR

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2,810
Oh. What makes you think it is interacting with the firmware rather than sending a time setting via exp? (I don’t know enough about this stuff but like to learn)
Looks like I get that "subdivisions" functionality wrong. I thought, that with tap tempo connected, time knob would do dedicated subdivisions.
But looks like you will get quarters with delay max, and then can create subdivisions by ear, reducing delay time.
 

TheReplicant

Member
Messages
791
Looks like I get that "subdivisions" functionality wrong. I thought, that with tap tempo connected, time knob would do dedicated subdivisions.
But looks like you will get quarters with delay max, and then can create subdivisions by ear, reducing delay time.
I wasn’t sure from watching the JLJ video- at first it seemed like the knob was divided into 4 segments that gave precise subs, since he didn’t seem to be fiddling much and got the subs he wanted, but then for one of them he did adjust while playing. I couldn’t see how the combo of the tap and the BED could quantize the subs so precisely so it makes sense it’s by ear. It would be easy enough to mark them with tape and marker once one spent some time finding them.
 

stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
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2,852
Looks like I get that "subdivisions" functionality wrong. I thought, that with tap tempo connected, time knob would do dedicated subdivisions.
But looks like you will get quarters with delay max, and then can create subdivisions by ear, reducing delay time.
I wasn’t sure from watching the JLJ video- at first it seemed like the knob was divided into 4 segments that gave precise subs, since he didn’t seem to be fiddling much and got the subs he wanted, but then for one of them he did adjust while playing. I couldn’t see how the combo of the tap and the BED could quantize the subs so precisely so it makes sense it’s by ear. It would be easy enough to mark them with tape and marker once one spent some time finding them.
Sorry y’all. I hadn’t watched the video and didn’t realize the BED on-board time knob was part of the equation. It seems to me the effect of the pot setting is discretized into zones, much like the mode pot is.

I think us lay-people could sort of deduce what’s happening by experimenting with two pedals and the two outputs. The hint is the two different output ports.

Here is my hypothesis:

- The “DLX” tap output is connected to the expression (and therefore BED time pot) and that pot is relevant to its tempo calculation (overall resistance)
- The tap pedal is choosing 1 of several adjustments to the tempo based on ranges of the time pot; the user just has to be close, because the tempo calculation is going to use rounded values.
- The standard tap output is not relying on downstream resistance as part of its calculation, and sends the pulses other pedals with “tap ports” are looking for - from which those pedals make there own calculations and determine actual time setting.

Possible test:
- if the user connects the dlx output to a standard normally-open exp port on another delay (or other time based parameter), interesting things might happen. I think it’s possible one could connect the DLX as a sort of one shot ramper for other effects.
- the amaze1 may work similarly, because as far as I know the ardx20 is not looking for pulses but rather the amaze1 is setting the analog time pot (without the onboard time knob entering the equation). So, it is possible that the amaze1 will control the time of the BED, but the resulting tempos would almost certainly not correlate. Maybe the BED time could be set such that the math worked and the tempos matched. Maybe even if the tempo didn’t match the user could use the modulation of the amaze1 on the BED, which would be cool.

UPDATE:
Yes, the amaze1 (reversing polarity) can control the time of the BED. The modulation also “works”. However, the values are so far off it is completely impractical. I think maybe the amaze1 is normally closed or something. Either way, it doesn’t sound bad, just completely different than what is tapped :)
 
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TheReplicant

Member
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791
To me it ultimately still comes down to wishing they’d have set the delay time to the maximum 1000ms (or that current Catalinbread would figure out how to do the mod which is literally changing 1 line of code), since the project that I need tap tempo for needs that much delay time. It is nice to know that if the Echorec Dlx ever happens (unlikely at this point), this device will work with it.
(As a side note, I see they’re still saying that the max time on the BED is 800ms whereas Howard clarified that was a mistake and it was 680.)
 
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blewis

Member
Messages
243
I easily spent over $65 of my time researching the Disaster Area micro clock, and finding a decent price on a used one. I can tap tempo 3 devices with presets, but overall this llooks like a good deal.

Love the new color scheme. My grey/blue one is hard to read so I put a strip of gaffer tape on it with big labels.

I’m considering also making a TRS toggle box so I could manually switch between the Disaster Area CV tap tempo and an expression pedal.
 
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stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,852
I easily spent over $65 of my time researching the Disaster Area micro clock, and finding a decent price on a used one. I can tap tempo 3 devices with presets, but overall this llooks like a good deal.

Love the new color scheme. My grey/blue one is hard to read so I put a strip of gaffer tape on it with big labels.

I’m considering also making a TRS toggle box so I could manually switch between the Disaster Area CV tap tempo and an expression pedal.
Yeah, I’m sure there are better options if you don’t have to control a BED. The extra port is a nice option for those that will be controlling a BED though - packs a little more value into the format.
 

truckin

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,831
Hey guys, could those be used with a DM-2w? Both utilize expression inputs to control delay time
 

Slideman

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Messages
1,686
So this Tap works great with the BED! One difference I did notice is that the "echo sustain" when using the tap is more pronounced than the default position on the knob if you hadn't used the tap. Flipping the V/D switch between the two is quite noticeable.
 

DarnWeight

Member
Messages
156
I'm having issues with mine using the BED and another delay simultaneously. I started a seperate thread (link below), because I forgot all about this one...

 

TheReplicant

Member
Messages
791
I’m guessing Catalinbread has tripled their sales of BEDs the past couple of months due to all those who’ve said over the years ‘I’d get one if it had two tempo’. No? Hmm.
 




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