Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Scumback Speakers, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    About $400 each. I sold a matching, no issues, tested, original coned pair in December for $700, and afterwards I felt like I left some $$ on the table! Oh well, the new owner (a TGP member) bought them for his rig because this was all he was missing to complete it, the old Marshall head and his Jeff Swanson/BB I extension cab.
     
  2. Axeplyr

    Axeplyr Member

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    :dude

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

    I didn't realize they were worth so much!!! How should I care for them? I'm not using them right now, so they are sitting on a shelf in my studio. Is this ok? Or are they best occasionally seeing some volume?

    Maybe I need to have someone build me a 2x12 cab to put them in!

    :cool:
     
  3. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    I have mine on shelves, cone down to protect the cones, and I've got some hellacious screws/anchors into the studs to support the weight. What you have are the 2nd rarest Celeston Pre Rola speakers. The rarest (and I've never seen them) are the T1341 G12H30 8 ohm 102 014 cone speakers. These are the rarest, and the only place I've seen them is in the HOM book listings, never seen a real one in person.

    As for playing them, that's up to you, or you could lend them to me to test for you. ;)
     
  4. dm4501

    dm4501 Silver Supporting Member

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    This is a very informative thread. Thank you!:AOK
     
  5. Axeplyr

    Axeplyr Member

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    I you weren't so far away, I'd take you up on that offer. I'm in the UK, unfortunately (displaced American).

    Thanks for the advice - I'll treat them like gold!
     
  6. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    With shipping costs coming in around $75 USD per speaker, you're right, you test them! LOL Enjoy that tone!
     
  7. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    OK, more pics to illustrate cone codes to watch for on old Celestions.

    I'm going to show you pics of the cone codes from 1969 to 1973 for G12H30 55 hz speakers, widely known as the "holy grail" of Celestion speakers. These speakers came with a Pulsonic 55hz bass cone.

    Earlier today I picked up a quad of Rola Celestion 1973 G12H30 T1281 55hz speakers (EF 8 date code, May 8th, 1973). The seller swore they were all reconed, no numbers, no nothing. Turns out they had the very rarely seen "4" code on the cone. The "4" code cone is the last in the Pulsonic 102 014 speaker cone line. This cone is the one that so many search for for the ultimate tone. (Hogy uses these speakers for his Komet Amp clips on his site. http://www.kometamps.com/sounds.html)

    Here's the 102 014 cone code pic. The one I have loose for pics has a significant cone tear repair. Whoever did it (before I got it) did really well, since this speaker passed OCSR's speaker tests (www.speakerrepair.com), and they're a Celestion authorized recone/repair station. I've seen others that had no repairs not pass, so this is an anomaly, for sure. This cone code is underneath the black speaker tab, high up by the voice coil (generally were Celestion put the cone codes when installed at the factory, all three of these are in the same proximity).
    1969 G12H30 T1281 102 014 cone pics:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Then in late 1970 or so, Pulsonic shortened the cone # code to 102/14, here's a pic of what that looks like. The DD23 date code on the speaker this code pic came from dates it to April 23, 1971.
    1971 G12H30 T1281 102/14 cone code pic:
    [​IMG]
    Finally the 102/14 morphed into a "4" all by itself, with a line on top of it. It almost doesn't look like a complete number 4 printed on the cone at all, have to admit. The ones I picked up today all looked like this (the fourth was a recone, a 1777 75hz lead cone that was an incorrect Celestion recone kit). These pics came from a 1973 G12H30 T1281 Rola Celestion 55 hz speaker with a date code of EF 8, May 8th, 1973.
    1973 G12H30 T1281 "4" cone pics:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Here's the label on the 73 Rola.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And here's the comparison of the 102 14 cone and the 4 cone. One is a seasoned rock 'n roll warrior that's been in a cabinet for 30 plus years, the other hasn't seem much dust/duty at all considering how shiny the doping is and free of settled dust (like the one on the right). Make a guess, let's see who can figure it out!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  8. Reactionjackson

    Reactionjackson Member

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    Scumbag,

    Even beyond this thread - the continual sharing of your vast knowledge ceases to amaze me. Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into everything. If your ever on the east coast, I owe you a few cold ones.

    ;)
     
  9. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    You meant "never" ceases to amaze me...right? ;)

    No worries. I like to help when & wherever I can. I figure I've got the resources to put this together, so.... what the hell, right? Might as well have a little informative speaker history thread!

    Glad I could help you out with some of my knowledge, although it's hardly "vast". You're welcome.

    Let's just leave it at I've got a little info to share sometimes.

    :)
     
  10. Reactionjackson

    Reactionjackson Member

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    Man. :smacks forehead: That's what overtime on a Saturday will do to 'ya. At any rate, your 'little info' is much appreciated. :)
     
  11. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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    This is a great thread.

    Just a heads up guys...

    Speaking of "014" cone G12H speakers...

    Tomorrow night I'm thinking I might ;) be putting a VERY near mint original 1968 Marshall (1982A) "100" gold faced logo slant cab on our most famous of online auctions. It is in almost time capsule condition AND it has 4 original coned no sticker "014" 55hz cone G12H 30 watt T1281 Greenbacks.

    The speakers are all dated (27HA) the exact same day, in August of 1968. The cab is so clean I don't think the speakers have ever been unsoldered or out of the cab, let alone fully broken in.

    I'm still trying to decide if I can part with the cab ;) though I'm thinking I might just be a 25 watt kinda guy...

    Thanks Scumbag, AWESOME post and pics!
     
  12. Lamont

    Lamont Member

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    hey JimBag,great pics now heres a man who knows his speakers,way cool!! Thanks for the "whats up" on the g12hs in the Marshall 2061 cab(not the 55hz that i was told)But ya know , the more i play them w/ my 9/15 and pa-20,i'm really starting to dig it.
    With guys like you and Weber, and lets not forget what emiminminminmce is doing( great competition) celestion is starting to go ?????And it looks like were all gonna benifit from it .
    Again ,great work and sorry we missed ya a the Bakers square eggs and tonefest a cpl of fridays ago.
     
  13. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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  14. saros141

    saros141 Guest

    Scumbag, thank you for continually being a source of great info.

    Geetarpicker - beautiful cab, man. Please tell us you have another one (maybe not so clean or with different speakers?) that you like even more, and tell us why... I mean, you've got the 59 Paul and the Express, that's two-thirds of ultimate, from many folks' perspective.
     
  15. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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    Well I miss the '68 slant cabinet I owned from 1990-2004, which had '71 era 25 watters in it. I thought I liked this 30 watt cab better when I got it last year. But in time I guess I missed my old cab too much, too used to it I guess. The 30s are awesome, but my Express is a little bright, and the 25s were a nice mellower match. That said the guy I sold my 25 watter cab will sell it back to me at close to the same price we worked with last summer. SO, off to the bay with this one. I REALLY wish I could afford to keep both a 25 watter cab AND a 30 watter cab. To be honest the cab I put on ebay is probably worth quite a bit more than the cab I'm "backgrading" too since my 25 watter cab has speakers 3 years newer than the '68 cab that it is. I bet my 30 watter cab on ebay will actually mellow with time, as the speakers are hardly broken in. Maybe I don't know what I'll be missing once the 30s are played a while. Alas. All that said, I do actually like the lower efficiency of the 25s even if their bass response is a little sloppier.

    Got to give to get.
     
  16. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Damn thread hijackers. LOL :D Pretty clean there, sir. That 69 straight cab of mine looked pretty similar inside, especially that wiring job.

    saros141, thank you, and you're welcome. Glad I could post something of value for the members. There's a few more pics to go in this thread, then perhaps it's time to archive it for posterity, huh? Let's let the moderators decide.

    Geetarpicker, if you don't get that other cab back you had back, I have four 1971 G12M 25 watters with 102 3 codes inside a straight cab I refurbished... just a thought, or "Plan B" if plan A fails... good luck with your auction.
     
  17. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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    Scumbag,

    The cab you are talking about (w/30s) is the one from Gloucester? I ended up with the other straight from that same guy. A total hodge podge of speakers, black 25, green 25, creme 25, and one '68 014 G12H. Sounds like god though and I ain't touchin' it.

    Thanks for plan B on the 03 cone 25 watters. Yep the cab that I use to own (and will probably buy back) has x4 Sept. 71 G12Ms. I'll let you know if I need those other 25s.

    I'll probably miss the "014" 30s though, and the next owner will probably get them fully broken in and be one happy camper.

    G
     
  18. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Geetarpicker...nope, I'm never selling that 69 straight cab...ever! The one I'm talking about is a stripped cab I recovered a few months back. Here's a picture of it: http://scumbackspeakers.com/greenbacks/1960b7.jpg

    As this was an empty cab that had no speakers to date it with, I was forced to date it using the seller's thoughts, web resourches, etc. The seller came up with 71-73 era based on the "Marshall" embossed plastic, and the checkerboard cloth it used to have. The Marshall embossed plastic went out previous to 74, from what I can determine from sources, so it's pre 74 at worst. I just got new casters for it (Marshall, of course), and the plywood back is being cut (particle board back originally) for it, and I'll transfer the jack, plate, etc. after I tolex it. Tolex is elephant, however, as that's what I found on it from the factory, and it's the 1982 bass cab, so I got some repro logos (Gold Bass, Gold 6" Marshall) logos to put on it, too.

    I have a quad of 71/72 G12M 102 3 cones, a quad of 73 G12H30 102 3 lead cones, and a quad of 73 G12H30 "4" cones to install in it when I'm ready to sell, so the lucky buyer can "name their tone" from that list.

    I see your cab already hit reserve a few hours after listing it. Bully for you!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  19. AtomEve

    AtomEve Member

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    Kick butt Jim!!!

    Thanks for sharing!
     
  20. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    OK, as I wind up this thread, I thought that you should have some examples of the labels you'll see on "Rola Celestions". Generally, anything after the 1971 Celestion factory move is considered a "Rola Celestion" speaker, and not a "Pre Rola" speaker. However, as can be determined from the date codes, cone codes and labels, there are no absolutes in the 71-74 Celestion speaker era, and there were plenty of 102 003, 102 3, 3, 102 014, 102 /14, 4 cones mixed and matched from Celestion's inventory from mid 1971 on. Even the Pre Rola labels with the "Thames Ditton, Surrey" address on the label were available and used through 1973. If the labels were marked with "Ipswich, Suffolk", they were determined to be "Rola Celestion" and not "Pre Rola", regardless of the actual construction parts used in the speaker's assembly. Quite often, the PR black speaker tabs with the 102 003 cones, etc., went out with Rola Celestion labels. I'm sure they just grabbed what was in the bin, smacked on the label, and away they went out the door!

    Of course there were also the "transition" labels, and the Rola Labels. I personally have seen all three different labels used in a 14 month time period from April of 1971 thru June of 1972 (how's THAT for confusing!), and for some time afterwards, too, there were lots of cone # changes to further confuse things... nothing like a bunch of "anomalies" to further dilute the issue, huh?

    Here are the "Rola Labels" post 1971.
    Greenback label from a G12H30 T1281 55hz speaker with the "4" cone, EF 8 (May 8th, 1973):
    [​IMG]
    Creamback or Grayback label from a G12H30 T1217 75hz speaker with a "3" cone, MF 3 (December 3rd, 1973):
    [​IMG]
    Blackback label from a G12H30 55hz T1281 55hz speaker with the "444" cone, EK 10 (May 10th, 1977):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012

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