Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Scumback Speakers, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. murkat

    murkat I like sea otters

    Messages:
    1,361
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    NTlGuitar.com, Nashville, Tn.
    Well, I did offer mine up for sale at one time, no takers. So I re~installed them back into the old cab, plugged in my budda twinmaster.... wowzygoosh ;) I'm keeping :)
     
  2. LarryN

    LarryN Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, Ca.
    That's amazing, considering how much value is placed on these speakers. I paid $76 for mine. I have a '71 102/3 with a serious tear that I'll repair and team up with the 003. They just sizzle with tone! I just looked at Dr. Decibel and if I'm dating this right, my ebay 102/003 is from Jan. 16, 1963. It's coded 16HA and T1221. I'm not sure if i'm dating it right, though. Just like the first greenback pic in this thread, it says "Thames Ditton Surrey" and no "Rola".
     
  3. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    The speaker you have is made in 1968, as they didn't make T1221 G12M's until the mid 60's. However, August 16, 1968 is still a very good year. Here's a date code chart for you to reference.

    http://www.abrown.com/datecode.htm
     
  4. Babaji

    Babaji Member

    Messages:
    1,302
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Location:
    Alexandria,
    Thanks for posting this!
    "T1862 & T1234 G12H30 heavy magnet (50 oz. ceramic magnet), Pulsonic 102 003 75hz lead cone model, 8 ohms (pretty rare in 8 ohms). I've seen a total of 7 of these in 200 plus Pre Rola purchases. As rare as Pre Rola's are, these are amongst the rarest.
    The T1862 came out of an open back combo I was told, so I'd have to guess the T1234 did, too. This info can't be confirmed, however.
    T1862 G12H30 8 ohm pic:
    This particular speaker was used in the steel chassis, EL34 50 watt trem combos (Bluesbreakers)that were exported to the US in the 67-68 period. The one that I own has them. Your photo is the first that I have seen of these particular speakers outside of my amp! I had an early Park stripe-front cab in the early 1990's that had the early silver(like vox blues) version in it. Sadly, it was sold to keep the ball rolling! I still have a pair of 68 topcabs, one with the original G12 25's, the other with four silver bulldogs.
    Bill
     
  5. LarryN

    LarryN Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, Ca.
    Thanks for clarifying that. I get a little off course with those charts sometimes. They were a little sloppy with the edge-doping on this one, (production quality relaxation?) but it doesn't hurt the sound. By the way, Scumbag, what you are doing is phenomenol! I get together with John at Brown Soun occasionally to test speaker voicing. One of my old music buddies, Steve Kimock, was involved with the development of the paper-cone Tone Tubby and helped with the hempcone to some extent. The greenback revival trend is very exciting and you appear to be at the epicenter. Keep up the great direction. Eventually I will try one of yours.
     
  6. LarryN

    LarryN Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, Ca.
    Are you sure about the year? Both code charts say that the date number came first until 1967.
     
  7. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Pretty sure. If you look in the HOM (History of Marshall book by Doyle) they have a pretty long chapter on Txxxx #'s and when they were introduced. According to the HOM on page 137, the T1221 Greenback was introduced on May 6, 1966 so that kind of rules out the earlier date, plus they only had alnico magnet speakers before then (if the HOM is right) so putting the ceramic magnet construction into the equation along with the date code, and the HOM, that would mean it's not a 63...sorry!

    But don't despair, that's still a very desirable speaker, and should be worth at least $250 anywhere on the planet, probably more.
     
  8. keith_t4e

    keith_t4e Member

    Messages:
    1,394
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Location:
    nc
    what can you tell me about the black back which says marshall rola celestion T2876
     
  9. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    That should be a G12-80 speaker. 50 oz "H" magnet, 444 55hz cone, although I have seen it with a 1777 75 hz cone as well when reconed improperly. I have two original T2876 speakers here, both with 444 cones (same as used in a Vintage 30 and later model G12H30 55hz speakers from the mid to late 70's). One I've owned since day one, as it came new in my Randall RG-80 I bought new in 1982. The other is a BN21 date code, meaning it was made on February 21, 1980.

    Hope that helps...
     
  10. LarryN

    LarryN Member

    Messages:
    956
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, Ca.

    Thanks again Scumbag. I'm not too worried about the value of it; more having a chart that I can decipher!
    :jo
     
  11. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    After alot of "cut & paste" this morning, the Greenback pics are reloaded at my new site, www.scumbackspeakers.com So I figured I'd better bump this so that everyone knows I'll be reloading the tolex, grillcloth and piping tutorials as well. Have a good day!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  12. murkat

    murkat I like sea otters

    Messages:
    1,361
    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Location:
    NTlGuitar.com, Nashville, Tn.
    Here's one for kiks and giggles, I have two 2104's (Marshall 50 wt combos)
    one has its original T3120's ( AN29) marshall labeled celestions, while the other has one T3120 ( LM14), and a odd ball celestion T3054 ( CN19 )
    probably replaced, sounds great NLT, what can you tell me? Thanks man.
     
  13. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    T3120's are Celestion G12-65 speakers, so are T3054's.
     
  14. eddiemax

    eddiemax Guest

    Hi there. ive got 4 G12H speakers in 2 cabs. ive only removed 2 from one cab so far to see if i could find a cone number. but definitly cannot see one! Is this normal?

    Codes on the chassis are both T1234 FH26X. There doesnt appear to be any re-coning goings on present.

    Only other info ive got :- 75C/s, 8 ohm 'Pre Rola' Label on back.

    Do i have to have a white number on the cone for them to be original?
    Any ideas much appreciated! :)
    Ive taken some pics, but no idea how to post them! lol

    Edd
     
  15. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Edd, if you can email me the pics, I can take a look and let you know...usually they're under the speaker tabs and are hard to see without a good light, flashlight or the right angle...but that's "typically" where they are. Here's where to look...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    later in the 70's they were placed all over the cone from top to bottom and could also be in black ink, as well as white. Here's a G12H30 T1281 55hz 444 cone that's in black ink.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  16. mentoneman

    mentoneman Guest

    Messages:
    2,376
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Hi-

    I have a question,

    here is a speaker I recently purchased for $76:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    it is a recone, and it is currently blown---it rubs when the cone is gently pushed in and out---the seller said he didn't realize it was blown. i can return for a refund. but is it worth it to recone it and keep it?

    i'm receiving a pair of reissue greenbacks, and one reissue gh30 to overhaul my bogner uberkab with, and this was going to complete the cab, but now i'm unsure what to do---is this 55hz gh30 killer as a recone and compatable with a new scumback or heritage?
     
  17. laurencer83

    laurencer83 Member

    Messages:
    409
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    half way to everywhere
  18. Jeff West

    Jeff West Member

    Messages:
    927
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Yes, those are rare these days but definitely look real. Mid July '67.

    The G12H with the 50 oz magnet like on later G12H30s appeared by the beginning of 1966 (although the very earliet ones from the first half of '66 I've seen have all been 75 c/s T1217s). For about the first two years that they were appearing in Marshalls Celestion rated them all (G12Hs) at 25W, not 30; during this same time frame all the G12M models like T1221 were rated 20W. By mid '68 they were switching to 25 and 30 on the labels consistently (sometimes earlier, and sometimes by applying new little stickers over old labels).

    Original cones (like these) on the earliest ones were marked "1777" on the 75 c/s versions and "SP 444" on the 55 hz. The "xx 102 003" and "xx 102 014" "Pulsonic" cones were slightly later, although they were coming in by late 1967 as well. I agree with the seller that the earliest ones tend to sound a little different, although my first-hand experience with a couple of 9/67 T1281s with "sp444" is limited, compared to some Lead models that I've had for years. He's right too that the greenback color tends to be a little different olive on the real early ones, and there were a few other distinctive features related to the VC former, doping (on both sides of the surround, usually), and terminal boards that can distinguish them from all subsequent versions. Also, the magnet polarity was often -but not always- reversed on the real early ones as they came from the factory, compared to most Celestions, don't ask me why! I just lost an original T1217 from 2/66 with "1777" cone in Katrina- had loaned to a friend whose house flooded.

    I notice from the photo that these have labels that say "75 c/s" not 55, but that's actually authentic for many or most T1281 from pre-'68. But I'd consider these low resonance models - excellent!

    Hard to say about the rubbing one without checking it out, although if I had it I'd definitely try to bring it back to operation before reconing.

    Regards-
    Jeff W.
     
  19. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    There are a couple of options for your blown speaker...
    1) Send it back for a refund, as a blown speaker is never worth more than $25 to me (come on, the tone is in the cone/suspension, not the metal frame, label OR the magnet) as a "hulk".
    2) Get a partial refund (whatever your comfortable with, but I'd ask for $50) then get it reconed.

    Recone options:
    1) Original Celestion kit from OCSR (http://speakerrepair.com) $95, and it will be the V30 recone kit...so upper mid peak is present, and basically you'll turn your vintage T1281 into a V30. Shipping back and forth probably $25-30 within the lower 48 states to Orange County, Ca (SoCal).

    2) Generic recone kit from OCSR, $65, plus shipping, etc. 444 55hz cone kit, which sounds as good or better than the Celestion V30 kit.

    3) Scumback H55 recone $95 plus shipping, so you're still in the $120-$130 range after shipping, etc.

    It's up to you to decide what makes the most $$$ sense here...since it's not an original cone anymore, the speaker isn't collectible. If it's just to make your cab configuration complete, figure out the cost options and weigh in your mind what you think it's worth.

    Personally, and this is my advice to you, I'd just send it back for a refund, and buy a new speaker to match your other Celestion RI you have coming in, so they're all the same age, cone styles (at least matching pairs), and efficiency.

    Good luck!
     
  20. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,360
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca
    As Jeff West posted, these are real looking, although very early models. The bent frame speaker may or may not be repairable. It depends on how badly it's rubbing, frame damage, etc. Weber might be able to a voice coil repair on it, if you send it to him, but it might be too far gone, too, so keep that in mind.

    The opening bid might be a little too high (to me at least) considering one speaker is rubbing, and only three are good. However, I've spent up to $350 each on three good ones, so as long as you know that you should only count on three speakers, plus the cost of whatever it takes to repair/recone the fourth, you should just bid as you see fit.

    Good luck!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice