Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc.

Jeff West

Member
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1,015
Hi Jim- Assuming that Weber is still not doing recones for the general public on non-VSTs, what's the procedure for getting a Scumback recone? And are all configs available (G12M 75 and 55, G12H 75 and 55, etc.)?

Also, should one assume there's no limitation to an actual M25 or H30 among blown Celestions, e.g., could redo a dead G12H-100 as an H30 Scumback, etc.?

Jeff
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
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10,753
Hey Jeff! Hope you're doing well! Sent you an email, too.

The recone thing is limited to G12M, G12H, Alnico Blue/Gold type frames. Basically I will recone most 35 oz, 40 oz and 50 oz magnet weight frames, as long as they have 1.75" (1 3/4") voice coils. G12M-70's have 1.5" voice coils, so those I won't rebuild/recone.

T1221, T1511 G12M types are compatible
and T1281, T1217, T1534 G12H30 models are, too.

Here's the recone page for those who want to get their old Celestion frames rebuilt as Scumbacks.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/recones.html
 
Last edited:

Jeff West

Member
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1,015
Hey Jim- Thanks. Actually, the G12H-100 was just for an example, I've got one but it's working fine, they're hard to damage! They do have G12H30 frame and magnet, though. I do have a couple of blown oddball T#s that use G12M25 frames, I might get around to sending those.

I'll get on your e-mail to catch up on a few things . . .

I noticed the '67 Bass G12H25s went quick for BIN. Did you get 'em, laurencer83?

Jeff
 

beej

Supporting Member
Messages
808
First off, thanks for all the info in this thread- it's really invaluable!

I picked up a Type 1982 Bass Lead cab the other day for CDN$100. Inside I've got 4 speakers, all G12Ms. Need some advice on two of 'em.

The top two are great: T1221's w/ 102 003 cones in perfect shape. Date codes (DB11S, DB814S) put them both at April 1969. Though, there seems to be an extra digit at the end of the codes that confuses me.




There's also a G12M T1511 (DD21=Apr '71) with a cone that says "101 014" (not 102 014 as I'd expect). This cone looks to have been been ripped and glued at some past date:




Lastly, there's a T2168 (FF188=Jun '73) with a "3" cone that's missing a dust cap. It's the only one with a Rola label on it:




So- questions for the experts:

1) The extra digit in the date codes ... normal?
2) The 1511 - any thoughts on the glue job? Should I leave this as is or think about a recone/replacement?
3) The missing dust cap ... can/should I get this replaced?

Or should I just try and get two of something (e.g. 1221's) to match the two good ones I have and make a complete set?

Thanks!
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
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10,753
beej, OK, a couple of things to note. The T1511 speaker uses a 102 014 cone, 55hz bass response, known as the bass cone. From the pic you've posted it looks to me like the cone code # is just smudged. I've seen that before, so I'd say your 101 014 is actually a 102 014. The 3 cone is a 75 hz lead cone, dating from the early to mid 70's. Your T1511 looks to be, well, pretty thrashed. Not sure how that one is going to sound, but if you can have it tested at a local speaker reconer, do it, just so you know if its good or not. If it's got voice coil rub, you should have it reconed.

Past that, the dust cap should be put back on the other G12M so that you don't collect any debris in the voice coil gap. That can be trouble.

Mixing speakers can do wonders to fatten up your sound. I do it all the time. Popular mixes are a 75 hz lead cone G12H type, and the two different G12M types, 75 and 55 hz.

Do a search and you'll get lots of opinions on the tones available.
 

beej

Supporting Member
Messages
808
Much appreciated. I'll get those two tested and see whether it's worth fixing/reconing them.

Odds are I'll buy two new speakers (prob'ly Scumbacks from all the great things I've heard) to put into the cab. As you say, I'll mix it up - maybe two 55 Hz cones to go with the 75 Hz T1221s.

Thanks!
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
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10,753
beej, you're quite welcome, good luck! I hope that T1511 passes tests. I actually have an old H30/55hz 102 014 that looks just like that after being fixed...looks like hell, sounds fine, and passes the local Celestion reconer's tests, too.

Just looks fugly as hell, though...:D
 

keith_t4e

Member
Messages
1,394
mine have MM11 T2876 on them. They are black back celestions in a slant cabinet. I've heard they are 80 watt spks. Are they worth anything other than just selling it as an old used cab?
 

steve10358

Member
Messages
988
Can anyone describe the difference in tone of a pre-rola, my grey-back rola and the black backs? I had never seen the silver until I got my cab. i just thought there was green, creme and black.

Also, does anyone know where I can get oldstyle brass casterplates like what is on my '73?

And how can I tighten up the rivets on the one handle. When were the metal handles introduced?

S.
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
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10,753
T2876 Celestions are G12-80 speakers. They're pretty decent speakers, I have three myself. Great for high powered combos, or if you have a 2x12 cab with them you can run a 100 watt head no problem. They're not made anymore, but they're good speakers (about the last I liked besides the G12-65). Going prices for them are around $100-125 each.
 

keith_t4e

Member
Messages
1,394
Thanks a lot guy. Are they anything like the 80 watt speakers out today. I see one 80 and one lower wattage speaker a lot. Doesn't the lower wattage spkr still make the cab vulnerable when using a high wattage head?
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
10,753
steve10358 said:
Can anyone describe the difference in tone of a pre-rola, my grey-back rola and the black backs? I had never seen the silver until I got my cab. i just thought there was green, creme and black.

Also, does anyone know where I can get oldstyle brass casterplates like what is on my '73?

And how can I tighten up the rivets on the one handle. When were the metal handles introduced?

S.
steve10358, the difference in tone between the Pre Rola's and Rola's is that the PR's just sound a little bit more toneful/juicier/more vibrant. It's something you have to hear in person, trying to describe it in words will be tough. But you know it when you hear it.

Brass casterplates are also tough to find. Check eBay, but they won't be cheap, and it's likely there will be some "issues" with the casters, as they're usually sold as sets, from what I've seen.

You can't tighten up the rivets on your handles (that I know of, at least), as they're "punched in" via a pressure fit. Once they come loose, they're pretty much toast. I always replace them with 10/32 machine screws (1" long) and 10/32 T-nuts. Metal handles were used from approximately 66 to late 71/early 72.
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
10,753
keith_t4e said:
Thanks a lot guy. Are they anything like the 80 watt speakers out today. I see one 80 and one lower wattage speaker a lot. Doesn't the lower wattage spkr still make the cab vulnerable when using a high wattage head?
The G12-80's sound different (better) than Classic Lead 80's, the 70/80 speaker currently made. The lower wattage speaker does make the cab vulnerable when using a high wattage head. And you're welcome for the info. Happy I could help you out.
 

gpecoulas

Member
Messages
207
Southbay Ampworks said:
steve10358, the difference in tone between the Pre Rola's and Rola's is that the PR's just sound a little bit more toneful/juicier/more vibrant. It's something you have to hear in person, trying to describe it in words will be tough. But you know it when you hear it.

Brass casterplates are also tough to find. Check eBay, but they won't be cheap, and it's likely there will be some "issues" with the casters, as they're usually sold as sets, from what I've seen.

You can't tighten up the rivets on your handles (that I know of, at least), as they're "punched in" via a pressure fit. Once they come loose, they're pretty much toast. I always replace them with 10/32 machine screws (1" long) and 10/32 T-nuts. Metal handles were used from approximately 66 to late 71/early 72.
SouthBay, what makes the Pre Rolas sound so much better than post Rola Celestions, apart from the aging? Is it the cone material and construction? Is it the voice coil? Or something else? Can a reconed Pre Rola ever sound as good as the original ? Finally, who manufactures your speakers and what makes them better than
the speakers made by the companies that they are designed to emulate?
 

Scumback Speakers

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
10,753
gpecoulas said:
SouthBay, what makes the Pre Rolas sound so much better than post Rola Celestions, apart from the aging? Is it the cone material and construction? Is it the voice coil? Or something else? Can a reconed Pre Rola ever sound as good as the original ? Finally, who manufactures your speakers and what makes them better than
the speakers made by the companies that they are designed to emulate?
You can read all about it at my site, either at the speaker page, or the History page. I'd write more, but I wrote a rather detailed reply and then my browser crashed, so while that's happening I'll make this short, so it doesn't happen again. Click the speaker sale link at the bottom, that will take you to my site with a detailed explanation for most of what you're asking.

Feel free to email me offline for anything I've missed, OK? Thanks for your interest.
 

LarryN

Member
Messages
956
gpecoulas said:
SouthBay, what makes the Pre Rolas sound so much better than post Rola Celestions, apart from the aging? Is it the cone material and construction? Is it the voice coil? Or something else? Can a reconed Pre Rola ever sound as good as the original ? Finally, who manufactures your speakers and what makes them better than
the speakers made by the companies that they are designed to emulate?
I've purchased over 25 Celestions from ebay, all UK era, and have concluded that it's the cone paper. The later cones are darker colored, thicker(?) and more stiff which seems to make the tone harsher. That's my .02.
 

swknuck

Member
Messages
2
Hello. A friend of mine is offering a pre-rola greenback 20watt without any date-codes. Does anybody know what year they stoped making 20watt model? And what should I pay for it? It is in good condition.

Cheers
 




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