Celestion Heritage G12H vs G12M

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by kodecar, Feb 22, 2006.


  1. kodecar

    kodecar Member

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    After much internal debate and rumination, I have narrowed my speaker search down to these two for my new Germino Club 40. These will go into a 212 Bluesbreaker style cab

    Can anyone offer some opinions on these two speakers for this application? Preferences one over the other and why? What about one of each? Would that equal the best of both worlds of the worst?.

    While we are at it, configurable open back or closed back on the cab?

    Thanks,
    Derek
     
  2. Heritage

    Heritage Gold Supporting Member

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    Very good question. I was about to ask one on this subject as well.

    Just to spice it up a little bit more, has anyone ever mixed a Heritage G12M with a South Bay G12H30 75 htz?
     
  3. kodecar

    kodecar Member

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  4. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    I use both. I have 2 Heritage M's on the top and 2 H's on the bottom in a Divided by 13 cab. I would use one of each in the Germino.

    The M's are a bit less efficient, more mids and a sweeter high end.

    The H's are punchier, more bass and high treble, less mids and more efficient.

    The H's give the clarity and balls, and the M's add the sweetness.:AOK
     
  5. Roe

    Roe Member

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    is it a open or closed cab?
    g12m sound best in a closed cab IMO
     
  6. Mr.Hanky

    Mr.Hanky Supporting Member

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    Completely disagree.

    I have one in a Top Hat 1X12 combo, and 2 in a Jenkins HW61 semi-open cab and they sound fantastic in both. From what I hear the new G12H works better in a closed cab, but that is up for debate too since I believe Brian at Top Hat is using them in 1X12 combos now and loves them.

    I have a heritage G12H in a ported 1X12 enclosure, I would say GAT nailed it pretty well. I might have to try one of each in my 2X12 but those 12M's are so sweet and inefficient that it can be a great thing with a louder amp.

    Volume is something to keep in mind too, the 12M's can really help with that.
     
  7. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    This has been the overwhelming opinion of all of my clients on an M style speaker. G12M's just lose too much bass in an open back cab. The only way they found to help it out is to move that type (open back) cab close to a wall behind it when you play (as in 1-3 inches away to make it less open or more tuned, so to speak), put an H in with one M to "beef up" the low end, or go closed back altogether with two M's.
     
  8. dehughes

    dehughes Member

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    I just received a Heritage H yesterday, and already vastly prefer it over the Heritage M in my Club Royale 1x12. The M is good, mind you, very good actually, but for me the H just "does it" in that amp. A perfect fit, IMHO, along the lines of the Celestion Blue in terms of an "oh my goodness that speaker kills", 1st impressions sort of thing. I'm going to put the Heritage M in a 2x12 Top Hat closed back cab today and see how it fares paired up with a Blue, so we'll see.


    david
     
  9. daneswede1

    daneswede1 Member

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    I agree with this quote.

    The G12M 25s have a more creamy midrange from what ive listened to so far and the G12H30s seem to have the Highs and Lows popping through and more grit on the high end. I feel the the G12H30s may be the bet for hard or heavy metal type musicians while the M's might be a more bluesy or rock tone. I agree that together these speakers would probably be just great!

    On that note! I really like what Jim has done at Southbay ampworks and im leaning more and more torward getting the M75s and M55s in an Xpattern to cover both the highs and lows and grit and the creamy mids all in one shot in a 4x12" cab. Ive also heard clips of the reissue G12H30s and the G12M25s from Celestian which were nice as well but the SCumbacks would seem the way to go if your looking at expensive PRE ROLA types and would cost a lot less acquiring the same result from what I hear so far. What I need to do is get out and do some actual field testing to really get in the grind! Thats why we are all asking cause its hard to find these types of speakers locally where we can all just go and try them out!!

    Jim from Southbay sent me some info on a couple customers up in PT ST LUCIE with one guy who has the mix of the M55s and M75s I think it was?I got to take the road trip and go try these spkrs out!. As well, a friend of mine has the BLackback G12M25s in a 78' circa Marshall cab which im gonna run my Hand Wired 59SLPHW through as well. Im still checking things out but as of now im leaning toward the Scumbacks in an X pattern! Great Stuff. I just wonder if I should get the H75s-H55s or the M55-M75s?
     
  10. mmorse

    mmorse Member

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    I had Jims M75s and celestion Ms in both a closed back and open back 212 cab. Both flubbed out in the lows when pushed hard with an open back. Both held together better in a closed back cab. The Southbay was much better than the Celestion. Bear in mind I'm talking about a re-issue Greenback, not the Heritage. However, I've found H magnets hold together much better in open backed cabs. Particularly smaller cabs.

    The one exception to that is putting 2 Ms in a detuned 412. In that configuration, The low end of a pushed M held up pretty well.

    daneswede1, Here's what I found with Jim's speakers in a Marshall 1960a. I've had 4 M-75s, 2M-75s/2H-75s, and 2H75s/2H55s in that cab. I play classic rock, particularly southern rock and go for that tone. To my ears, the best combo has been the H75/H55 mix. A really terrific overall tone. I don't use an x pattern. I put the 75s on top and the 55s on the bottom. Tone is subjective, but that is what works for me. A quad of H55s would probably be excellent also.

    I use 2 H75s in my 212 but I will be going to the H75/H55 mix as soon as Jim gets in more H55s.
     
  11. CrunchBoy

    CrunchBoy Member

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  12. 59Vampire

    59Vampire Silver Supporting Member

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  13. Mr.Hanky

    Mr.Hanky Supporting Member

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    Funny, I just got my Germino Club 40 today and can now see what you guys are talking about. Using it with a 2X12 semi-open the bottom end was loose, especially with my R4 which has a TON of bass, (11's tuned down a whole step, P-90 neck pup). Putting the back on the cab helped tighten it back up a lot.

    With the Masonette (25 watt) this was not the case, I like it better semi-open, but that is a lot less power pusing two speakers.

    I am going to try swapping the G12H into the Top Hat and putting the G12M in the ported cab, see how that works.
     
  14. dehughes

    dehughes Member

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    Cool. Post back here with your findings...


    david
     
  15. wreckboy

    wreckboy Supporting Member

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    I'm a big fan of the Celestion Heritage G12M and G12H speakers. The Heritage G12M with it's lower efficiency and very prominant classic Celestion midrange voice may be the choice if you're trying to get the most out of your amp (working the amp more) while emphasing that British voice. The Heritage G12M samples on the speaker Shoot-Out (posted on this board) were my favorite. The Heritage G12M samples posted by bmf5150( http://www.plexipalace.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=43198&highlight=g12m) were very impressive. The Heritage G12H is more efficient with more top and bottom. Very big tone and very punchy..handles higher gain tones with ease. The independent sound samples of the Heritage G12H that were posted on the net absolutely didn't do the G12H any justice....after playing the Heritage G12H, I understand Eric Johnson's quote in the Celestion magazine ad. Both speaker have a great "feel" to them and particular "clarity" that the re-issue Celestion seem to lack. In direct A/B testing this is very evident. The tone of the Heritage Celestions are just so "Smooth". I love my vintage Celestions, have played most of the Celestion line including the re-issues (the Vox Blue being the best of these) and have tried speakers by both McGourty and Southbay/Scumbag. In my book both Heritage G12M and G12H stand above the rest:) Are they worth the higher price? For me the answer is YES.
     
  16. odgeuk

    odgeuk Member

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    In the clip, which order are the speakers? G12M first, then G12H ?
     
  17. gulliver

    gulliver Member

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    Just going by my ear, I'm almost certain it's H - M.

    Keep in mind, for a 2x12, you're still only at 50 - 60 watts with the Celestions. Doubling speaker handling relative to the power of a tube amp is the general rule. Rules are made to be broken, but not speaker.

    FWIW, I have the scumback H75 LHDC HP and M75 XHP in an OS sealed 2x12. After many trials and errors, it's the best combination I've heard ... both humbucker and SC tones.
     
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  18. Jube2550

    Jube2550 Member

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    Perfect description. I am curious about your 4 x 12 configuration. Did you try the "X" pattern as well? Any thoughts compared to how you have it set up now? Reason I ask is the "X" is the only way I tried them.

    Your configuration sounds like a good idea. I may go back into my cab to place both H's on the bottom with the M's on top. I find the M's are certainly the sweeter, laid back (lower efficiency) vintage tone that I prefer blaring into my ears but the M's are sorely missing the lower end of the H which when combined with M's gives fantastic punch. However, the H also adds too much higher frequency nearer to ear level. Do I need to break out the soldering iron.
     
  19. jkr

    jkr Supporting Member

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    I have to agree. I always thought that Heritage G12M sounded best in closed back cabs until I tried them in open back cabs. I think they sound great in both, but give the edge to open back cabs.
     
  20. Kitarist

    Kitarist Member

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    I would get the Heritage G12Ms i own 4x12 Heritage G12H30 and dont like them at all...

    They dont sound right or lets say nothing like a real G12H30
     

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