Celestion Heritage questions?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by RGB, Jun 7, 2006.


  1. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    I've read everything available via the search engine, but still have a couple of questions for those experienced with these drivers. I play classic/blues rock type stuff.

    I had a pair of Rola Creambacks awhile back and just couldn't like them. They were in good shape, well broken in, but always sounded ratty to me. I figured these were very desirable speakers, (I got a good price for them anyway), but they weren't for me. I really like Mesa's MC90's and THD's Longhorns (CL80's), but I'm constantly battling stage volume vs tone with the trio I play with.

    I'm wondering if I loaded a 2x12 closed back cab with a Heritage H and M combo, would I be able to get what I'm after at a more reasonable volume? Also I'm wondering if I'm going to spend $350+ and end up with the same tone that I had with the Creambacks and didn't care for.

    I know tone is really subjective, (and you can only guess what I'm after based on my vague description), but I thought maybe someone here can give me a bit of insight. I would also be interested in any other suggestions for alternate drivers for this application.
     
  2. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    I don't want to order a pair of these drivers and have to turn around and sell them, so I'd really be grateful if someone could offer an informed opinion.

    Thanks!
     
  3. scottl

    scottl Member

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    What amp?

    What tones do you go for?
     
  4. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    This cab is mainly planned for my Carmen Ghia head, Scott. I'm after a good blues rock tone. Hairy cleans with little compression. Punchy drive tones, again with a lot of snap. I play an Anderson Classic with M's, a Strat with Vintage Vibe P-90's, or a Tele with Fender VN's. More rock than blues. It's tough to describe what I'm after so I figured I'd try to get a comparison of the Rolas from someone familiar with both. Something a little less in your face than the CL80's and the C Rex.

    I just received the new Paul Thorn DVD and his lead player, Bill Hinds has almost exactly what I'm looking for in tone for this amp....he's playing a small Fender combo, a Deluxe I think, but has a lot of gear on the floor.
     
  5. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    For a Ghia, the M/H mix in a 2x12 is fantastic. Not done it with heritages, but my Celestion G12H30/G12M mix was great, and better was the scumback versions.

    At anyrate, M/H sounds REAL good with a Ghia.
     
  6. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Thanks Mike! I'm also looking at the Scumbacks, but to be honest, the clips on the site are not exactly my cup of tea. I would like to hear a comparison of them against the Heritage drivers as well. If the Celestions sound like the Scumback clips, I probably should look elsewhere, I guess.

    I'll probably just end up buying them all and selling what doesn't work for me, but I thank you for your thoughts.
     
  7. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, there's not really any 'edge of breakup' clips. They work great for that though. Like anything, gotta find what works for you.
     
  8. Macaroni

    Macaroni Member

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    There is another thread about the Heritage Ms, in this forum, and it has clips of the Heritage vs the Scumbacks. They don't sound similar at all.
     
  9. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Don't know how I missed that, Ron! I'll have to search again.

    Thanks!
     
  10. Macaroni

    Macaroni Member

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    I did a quick search but couldn't find it. Maybe that thread was deleted in the last hard drive crash. Anyway, the Heritages sounded clearer and more detailed. I'm not sure how broken in they were.
     
  11. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    Just goes to show we have different ears. To me, they sounded harsh and tinny. <shrug>
     
  12. ultrevex

    ultrevex Member

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    Speaker testing is so tough... what sounds great in 1 rig/room with 1 player can sound SO BAD in another. And forget about relying on descriptions from players... I find that I rarely agree or hear the same things. To an extent, you are cursed to the buy, try and flip method.

    That said, I'm familiar with the Celestion CL80 and have owned many old Celestions over the years. Most recently, I had a quad of late 70's Blackback 30 watters that I just couldnt get along with for some of the same reasons you describe... mainly a hardness and the rattiness you describe. I understand that both the scumbacks and the heritage series are fine, fine speakers but I have not heard them.

    I have heard and owned the Weber Silver Bells and think they might be ideal for your needs. While I didnt find the newest Paul Thorn cd, I listened to his 'Rise Up' cd and hear a lot of good, rootsy bread and butter type tones there. The Silver Bells can achieve these. Cool thing is that Ted Weber will try anything you ask...... 15, 30, 50 watt power handling, any amount of doping , different dustcaps(which affects high end and speaker 'feel' greatly) and he can scale their sensitivity, to an extent, so they wont be as loud on stage. I think a pair of 15 watters, no dope and sensitivity around 97db (greenback range) would do what you ask. I prefer semi open back 2X12 cabs, they breathe more to my ears.

    You might even find some used, although they're only around $100 new. He'll even break them in for you.

    best of luck
     
  13. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Harsh and tinny is how I would describe my old Rolas, which is why I'm hesitant to drop the $350 on these drivers that people seem to love so much.......without doing some research anyway.

    You're absolutely spot on about everyone hearing something different, Mike! That's why I'd hoped to hear someones comparison of the Rolas and the Heritage drivers. I think speaker breakup may be not what I'm after, but I'd like something a little less in your face than the CL80.

    I will definitely look into the Weber offerings. I think the lower efficiency drivers are what I'm leaning toward for the Ghia, because I have the snap coming from my CL80 cabs in my wet/dry rig. I did try a Red Fang on the Alnico side and wasn't horribly impressed, but I know there are a lot of other flavors available, so I guess I'm in for a bit of buying and selling. Oh well!:)
     
  14. carbz

    carbz Supporting Member

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    In the speaker comparison test Jim had up a while ago I remember favoring his scumback H75 and the celestion heritage 20w speaker of the speakers in the test. In all honesty I am glad I bought the scum.. For one you don't to worry as much about blowing it! Second both are very bright speakers and being the scumback to me is borderline too bright, the celestion being even brighter would probably be overkill for me. Plus the Scums are less exspensive. All I know is either one smokes the celestion V30's which in comparison sound like mud. I think Jims speakers are the hidden secret to the final link in the chain of tone. We'll in this forum they may not be much of a secret but in the outside world.....
     
  15. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    I'd probably try the scumbacks first if they were that much less expensive, but they're the about the same price as Avatar's Heritage prices so it's hard to decide based on price.


    ....and if you listen to the guys on the Z forum, the V30 is THE speaker for the Ghia!


    Man, this IS tough isn't it?

    Thanks for the opinions anyway guys, I really appreciate the input!
     
  16. big mike

    big mike Fixed Bias Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually A V30 sounds quite good with the Ghia. An Eminence Governor was even better.

    Just to confuse the issue.....:nono

    Best was the H75/M75 pair to me. For my use, guitar, style etc...
     
  17. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    I use the H and M Heritage combo in a 4x12 and a Marshall HW 2x12 cab. I LOVE this combination and it does knock down a few db's as well. I have an original metal handled Marshall 4x12 and that cab sounds a bit rough compared to the Heritage equiped cabs. If you don't like the Heritages, they are very easy to move. I have one H and one M not in a cab and I'm ordering one more of each and replacing the speakers in the old Marshall cab.

    I use the cabs with a Suhr OD100 Classic, a Marshall 1959HW, Heritage Colonial, Matchless Clubman and also run my SC-30 through. Sounds great with each amp, something that other speakers didn't.

    Alot of guys like the Scumbags too, but I haven't heard them. I would think resale of a Heritage would be pretty good. My 2 cents.
     
  18. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Mike, thanks a lot....:messedup

    Hey, did you like the H75/M75 in an open back or closed back cab?.....and why were the 75's better than the 55's with the Ghia?


    ....and I guess that's the one saving grace here....any of these drivers should be easy to find a home for!
     
  19. carbz

    carbz Supporting Member

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    Rich,

    If I am not mistaken Jim is running a special on his speakers for father's day. As we know we all have different ears and different opinions to what is pleasing to our ears but I had been using a v/30 for decades cause I thought it was the industry standard for rock guitar. After getting the scums I would never use a v/30 again. It just sounds to boxy/muffled. Its only when I compared the two side by side that I realized that. The celestion heritage line I think is the way to go if you want to stick with the celestions. Personally I ended up going with the 65 watt versions of the H75 so I don't have to ever worry about blowing em. I had the 30 watt versions and the voicing is pretty much the same.
     
  20. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    Thanks again for the help. I'm going to order the H55/M75 combo tomorrow and give 'em a listen. If I don't care for them I'll probably give the Webers and Scumbacks a try.

    It'll be a fun experiment, if nothing else!
     

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