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Ceriatone 5e3 Tweed Deluxe vs 5x3 Big Deluxe

ramonneke76

Member
Messages
184
Hi,

Can anybody tell the difference (sound-wise) of these two amps. I know 5x3 is basically a 5e3, but with 6L6's in it for more power. But what is the difference sound wise. Is there any difference? When does the 5x3 Big Deluxe starts to break up. Is the 5x3 a tweed deluxe or is it totally a different amp because of the 6L6's?
 

wyatt

Member
Messages
4,168
Same fast-to-overdrive preamp and voicing. Same cathodyne phase inverter.

What you get is MORE overall volume, maybe enough to stay relatively clean with a drummer. It'll stya start to break by 3 or 4 on the Volume knob and be completely overdriven by 5 or 6, but it'll be pretty damn loud by the time you reach 3 or 4 on the dial. Overall break characteristics may be different because of the 6L6GC vs 6V6GT, but that may be harder to peg because of the noticeable volume difference.

I would expect it to be in the 25-watt range since the 5X3 is cathode-biased.
 

cap47

Member
Messages
2,275
You can use either 6V6 or 6L6 with the 5x3. A standard 5e3 OT will be taxed to push 6L6 tubes. I built the standard and then ordered the Mag Comp #40-18088 OT and changed out. Works great for me. 32W with 6L6 cathode bias.
 

ramonneke76

Member
Messages
184
You can use either 6V6 or 6L6 with the 5x3. A standard 5e3 OT will be taxed to push 6L6 tubes. I built the standard and then ordered the Mag Comp #40-18088 OT and changed out. Works great for me. 32W with 6L6 cathode bias.
So just swap the tubes, plug and play?
 

wyatt

Member
Messages
4,168
So just swap the tubes, plug and play?
You would replace the rectifier with a 5Y3 at the same time to lower voltages. That should put it in the ballpark...but I would suggest you take the time (just once) to double check plate voltage and current draw to make sure you aren't pushing the 6V6GT's too much.

There is a caveat though, the difference is MORE than just the OT. The Ceriatone 5X3 uses a bigger PT as well to deliver the higher plate current at the voltage desired. Power transformers are rated for a certain voltage at a certain current draw (load), increase the current draw and the voltage will drop; decrease the current demand and the voltage will increase. As anything this means a compromise...

...if you use the 5X3 PT (I believe form the Tweed Pro/Super/Bandmster) with 6V6GT's, the voltages will all increase because the current demands drops. This could affect the bias range and will probably made the amp harder and stiffer than a stock 5E3.

...if you use a stock 5E3 PT with 6L6GC, then the voltage will drop and sag (and output wattage along with it) when pushed. You aren't going to get the votlageand current necessary to really get the most output of the 6L6GC's with a stock PT.

Personally, my favorite "big" 5E3 design is the Double Deluxe/5E3x2.
 
Last edited:

pkordel

Member
Messages
8
I'm in the planning stages for both a classic 5E3 build from Weber as well as a 6L6 5X3 from Ceriatone for experimenting with various mods. Just finished a Brown Sugar from Allen and it can handle a range of power tubes, I have tried it with 6V6, 6L6 and EL34. The way that circuit deals with the differences across power tubes is that you use the speaker impedance switch to adjust to the voltage differences. So when I'm plugged into an 8 ohm cab running 6V6 I'm in the down position (marked 8 ohm for 6V6, 4 ohms for the bigger guys) and it sounds just great. Then when I switch to say 6V6 I just have to remember to flip the switch to the higher impedance (16 ohm for 6V6, 8 ohm for the others.
As far as volume vs breakup, I want to play around with 1) power halving, 3) Pre PI master, 4) Attenuator built into my cab and 5) negative feedback options. More than likely I will end up with just one or two combos I really like but the hot rod variant from ceriatone will have all the switchable mods. My design goal is to have each mod be reversible by switch so it can be reset to a classic 5E3 circuit.
 

Sparky6string

Member
Messages
3,867
^ Very nice but too much for me. I'm wanting to order the 5x3 already put together by Nik's team. 6L6s are more focused than 6v6s so the 5x3 should have a crisper and more defined sound. I thought about the double deluxe but it seems like it would be too different from the classic 5e3 feel.
 

Kenny Blue

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,632
So when I'm plugged into an 8 ohm cab running 6V6 I'm in the down position (marked 8 ohm for 6V6, 4 ohms for the bigger guys) and it sounds just great. Then when I switch to say 6V6 I just have to remember to flip the switch to the higher impedance (16 ohm for 6V6, 8 ohm for the others.
I have been slowly trying to gain understanding over amp circuits and electronics because I would like to be able to also build my own amps.

I have to say that you lost me a bit in this paragraph of your post. "bigger guys" meaning what... 6L6s and EL34 ?
And... "Then when I switch to say 6V6"... do you really mean 6L6s.. or ?
And... "16 ohm for 6V6, 8 ohm for the others" ... Others meaning 6L6s and EL34 ?

Sorry... I re read what you said several times and I just cannot understand what it means. Probably me...lol.
 






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