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Certificate of Liability insurance for event(s)

stevel

Member
Messages
15,138
So, a venue where we regularly perform has told us we may need to supply a certificate of liability to continue to play there.

IME venues have their own insurance to cover events sponsored by them. In fact our contract states that the body hiring us must take care of insurance for the event.

That's been the way as far as I can remember, outside of "non-commercial" type events - i.e., a private function where we would want to cover ourselves in case we caused some damages that the original host could not cover and they would want to sue us or something.

It sounds to me like this venue is now trying to pass off the cost of insuring themselves to the vendors that come in. Hell, it might as well be pay to play.

My reaction is to tell them, yes, we can provide a CoL but we charge $1200 for those gigs (instead of the low rate we already play for they're of course complaining about).

Is this something you guys run into a lot? I've never even heard of it before this because generally a venue carries their own insurance and we're protected should we fall off stage because they've got a loose board or whatever.

Some of the words tossed around made it sound like to me that they want a band to be responsible for any damage caused by a drunken audience who knocks over a table and breaks something or something like that. As if their drunkeness and subsequent bacchanalian activities were incited directly by us.

We, by the way, are a bunch of 50 year olds playing 60s music - early 60s, nothing "heavy", etc. There's no craziness, only old folks having a good time. Someone might throw a hip or trip on a walker, but again, that's the venue's concern IME.

What say the combined sagacity of TGP?

Steve
 

GuitarGuy3

Member
Messages
854
I've never seen this myself but it also doesn't surprise me. You will probably have a tough time even getting an insurance cert. Most main stream companies won't insure a band. The funny thing is the venues that are asking for this have no idea what they are asking for. It is their establishment that people are coming to. Not the bands. The band is hired by the venue. The band's liability is so limited that it's not even worth talking about. And if you do get a policy, it won't cover the things the venue thinks it will cover. That cert won't be worth the paper it's on in a trial.

I see this kind of thing from time to time and just have to laugh. I am really curious how this turns out for you guys.
 

Dave Shoop

Member
Messages
11,358
So, a venue where we regularly perform has told us we may need to supply a certificate of liability to continue to play there.

IME venues have their own insurance to cover events sponsored by them. In fact our contract states that the body hiring us must take care of insurance for the event.

That's been the way as far as I can remember, outside of "non-commercial" type events - i.e., a private function where we would want to cover ourselves in case we caused some damages that the original host could not cover and they would want to sue us or something.

It sounds to me like this venue is now trying to pass off the cost of insuring themselves to the vendors that come in. Hell, it might as well be pay to play.

My reaction is to tell them, yes, we can provide a CoL but we charge $1200 for those gigs (instead of the low rate we already play for they're of course complaining about).

Is this something you guys run into a lot? I've never even heard of it before this because generally a venue carries their own insurance and we're protected should we fall off stage because they've got a loose board or whatever.

Some of the words tossed around made it sound like to me that they want a band to be responsible for any damage caused by a drunken audience who knocks over a table and breaks something or something like that. As if their drunkeness and subsequent bacchanalian activities were incited directly by us.

We, by the way, are a bunch of 50 year olds playing 60s music - early 60s, nothing "heavy", etc. There's no craziness, only old folks having a good time. Someone might throw a hip or trip on a walker, but again, that's the venue's concern IME.

What say the combined sagacity of TGP?

Steve
No way. I told the venue that is their responsibility. They rewrote the contract. Bands don't make enough to take on that liability.
 

taco-man

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
3,307
When the bodily-injury lawsuit is made, they can sue your business entity (Rock Group, LLC or whatever) and the venue, as well as anyone else they find, like the building owner, etc.

They want their insurance to defend them and your insurance to defend you (as a contractor).

I think Music Pro might still offer tour liability.
 

autonomous

Member
Messages
674
Of course you should get liability. I have a small landscape business and I have 1,000,000 liability. You must spend it to make it. Protect yourself.
 

Brooks

Member
Messages
5,482
this is ********. as others have stated, its the venues responsibility, they are hosting the event. either the venues rep is clueless, or they are trying to pass their expense on to you. try to discuss, if that doesn't work, WALK AWAY.
 

MoPho

Formerly tripp2k
Messages
5,663
Of course you should get liability. I have a small landscape business and I have 1,000,000 liability. You must spend it to make it. Protect yourself.
As a small business owner, I agree with this statement. I can't bid on larger bids without a CoL and this is just the other business' legal counsel making sure a "strategic" supplier has their ducks in a row, too. The relationship may not be strategic, but if you're playing there every Thursday it might be considered to be strategic to them (notwithstanding their attempt at rate squeeze). The appropriate thing to do is turn around and increase your rates since this is now beneficial to the venues...not unlike them passing on increasing food/alcohol costs to their patrons which they don't have a problem doing.
 

stevel

Member
Messages
15,138
I'm OK with walking on the gig. It's too low pay and out of town for all but one of us. One issue though is that three of our members are in two smaller groups that also play there under different names.

One thing I'm thinking though is we can't even get a CoL unless we're actually set up as a business.

We're not. Yes, we should be, but we're not.

And yes, the only way I'm willing to do this is for a significant rate increase.

Steve
 

Blue Strat

Member
Messages
30,226
As a small business owner, I agree with this statement. I can't bid on larger bids without a CoL and this is just the other business' legal counsel making sure a "strategic" supplier has their ducks in a row, too. The relationship may not be strategic, but if you're playing there every Thursday it might be considered to be strategic to them (notwithstanding their attempt at rate squeeze). The appropriate thing to do is turn around and increase your rates since this is now beneficial to the venues...not unlike them passing on increasing food/alcohol costs to their patrons which they don't have a problem doing.

This should play well for $500 and under gigs (which is likely 99% of them) when the added cost is presented to the venue. :facepalm Another nail in the coffin of live music, as if another one was needed.
 

Papanate

Member
Messages
19,822
That's a stretch to ask a band to provide a COI.
However that said we have a $2.5 Million Liability Policy.

The motivation would be to protect your band. We only pay
$575 a year fora $2.5 Million Liability Policy. - it's through Hartford via USAA.

The areas where a band is exposed (IMO) are with cabling and
electrical hookups. The first time an employee of the venue walks
across the stage when you are setting up and trips on power cords or
mic cable (if you are providing sound) you'll be unhappy that you are paying out
the $7500 to have the guys ankle set plus what ever they come after you for
'loss of wages etc...'. Or if you bring in your lights and PA
and have someone tap into the 3Phase - and again an employee touches your
wiring and get's 500 amps driven through him ( and this is regardless of whether
they were 'allowed' to be near electrical) the policy will pay off since your employee
tapped the 3phase.

And like others have been saying - I would put a $150 additional insurance fee on
any contract asking you to provide one. $350 if the house is providing lights
and sound. With the stipulation that the fee will be waived if the house
adds your band (or if not incorporated the individuals) as 'Additional Insured'
on the contract. For us that is a phone call and doesn't cost us a thing.
 
Messages
58
It's not uncommon for the wedding gigs I DJ at. I get pretty cheap insurance through mavon and just send over a cert when a venue needs one. Not really a big deal. I assume it would be the same for bands.
 

musicman1

Member
Messages
4,518
When needed I can get one via my homeowners insurer (Statefarm). I only obtain one if required by a venue.

Its about $35.00 for $300,000.00 and $65.00 for $1,000,000.00 per event. The rate can be higher if alcohol is going to be served.

In most cases of playing a gig, liability would fall to the club which is technically the general contractor. The band is usually considered a sub contractor and if the sub does not have coverage the ladder will continue upward and usually stop with the GC.
 

Big Al Z

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
745
Who has purchase this type of insurance and what was the cost? The Hard Rock is requiring it for bands.
 

changeling

Member
Messages
1,762
Yep,as a business entity,llc,etc,it is in your best interest to provide a c o l if required.
Tripping over a cable,electrocution,etc...are all tangibles in professional music production.
We are insured for a million,however the bands agent has his own policy and we piggyback on that.

More recently,certain venues are much more insistent about this.
As I said,if you're making good money as a business entity,I'd recommend it
Cause it will come up increasingly in the future.
If it costs our agent time and effort to supply additional coverage above and beyond
our coverage,he tends to tack it on to the final payment,cause it is a pain in the ass getting ahold of an
insurance agent you've spoken to maybe once,5years ago when you got the policy.
 

Bieling3

Senior Member
Messages
2,986
We were about to start a regular weekly outdoor jam in a local park for the summer. There is a stage and power and everything just sitting there not being used year after year. We got permission from the Town to do the first show. Everything went well, no complaints and a lot of people showed up for such a small town.

Next thing you know we're told if it's going to be an ongoing event each performer has to have one of these Certificate of Liability Insurance things. Apparently you can easily get one through whoever provides your home owners insurance... except no one involved has home owners insurance. No problem we're told, the Town will cover the event for $150 per day. There goes the potential profits from selling hot dogs and soda pop. Needless to say there wasn't a second show.
 

Scott L

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,337
We were about to start.............

Apparently you can easily get one through whoever provides your home owners insurance... except no one involved has home owners insurance. ......

Look in to getting a Renter's Insurance Policy - well worth it regardless of the need for the venue.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
42,567
When our kids were each young, my wife, on hiatus from her regular teaching gig, opened a small (4 kids, including ours) home day care business. Insurance was required by the county and we easily got it. My wife did, though, view her little home day care gig as a "real job."
 
Messages
712
I'm an insurance agent - it sounds like one poster stated earlier - you need event liability. These policies provide an amount of coverage for that specific time and location, and they are relatively inexpensive. Home insurance, renters insurance liability will NOT carry over in situations like a gig at another location. You can also purchase a commercial liability policy for your band that can term up to 12 months. Also, theft or disappearance of gear at a gig unless properly scheduled on a home or renters policy will NOT by covered either. Or, if it is covered there will be a limit (usually $1500 - $2500) that could be claimed total for stolen or lost gear. Keep a cinder block chained to that Two Rock!!
 






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