Chasing that stereo rack sound...with pedals? With both pedals AND rack gear?

Messages
213
I'm using a Decibel Eleven Loop Expander to add foot pedals ; Behringer AM100 Acoustic Modeler, EHX Ravish pedal, MXR 10 band EQ and Arion Hot Watt 2 with the buffer engaged. I can used the fourth Loop to change the channels on a non MIDI amp.

Back in the 1980's, a device like the RJM Mini Effects Gizmo or the Decibel Eleven Loop Expander, would have cost hundreds of more dollars .

And with websites like this and the knowledge out there on the Internet, you can do it yourself and not have to go to a Pete Cornish or Bob Bradshaw, to get a professional sound.
 

Wahrig

Member
Messages
21
Heck with it, here are some clips from the show Thursday:







Plexi Blue Channel for rhythm, and JF XTC for lead, in both clips. You're hearing the mesa V30 in the Diezel 2x12 on the left, and a T75 in a Marshall 4x12 on the right. The other guitarist is playing through a 6505+ through a similar current Marshal 4x12, over on the left.

All kinds of mistakes in those clips, but the crowd loved every second of the show and could care less.


It's great that you take all your babies out)

And the sound is obviously really good!

But on the other hand the video really cures my GAS to some extend:
the amount of sharp/flat notes in the solos (the player on the right side) makes me really want to sell 80% of my 150 dirt pedals, switchers and other excessive gear and stop all discussions about speakers or gear and spend the money and time for more lessons and excercising. I lose so much time here and often get close results like in the video

There is no point in having 2000-10000$ gear plus guitars/amps and speakers also don't matter
if most notes are not in tune...

I don't want to be rude! I'm saying this to myself, not to you))
 

Wahrig

Member
Messages
21
Man,
next video appeared:

Tommy Von Voigt - Could Have Been A Star

Fire!!

Why one would want/need to play guitar at all with such a voice))
 

Tommy Von Voigt

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
872
It's great that you take all your babies out)

And the sound is obviously really good!

But on the other hand the video really cures my GAS to some extend:
the amount of sharp/flat notes in the solos (the player on the right side) makes me really want to sell 80% of my 150 dirt pedals, switchers and other excessive gear and stop all discussions about speakers or gear and spend the money and time for more lessons and excercising. I lose so much time here and often get close results like in the video

There is no point in having 2000-10000$ gear plus guitars/amps and speakers also don't matter
if most notes are not in tune...

I don't want to be rude! I'm saying this to myself, not to you))

I'm not sure if you realize this, but I am the player on the right, hitting all of those sharp and flat notes.

Let me break this all down for you. I started playing in 1998. I got into the punk and hardcore scene, and then skate punk and pop punk. I had a couple of record deals, put out a bunch of stuff, toured the country four times, etc. That whole time, I did nothing but play power chords. At 100 miles an hour. Not much growth of my chops. Then, in 2005, I switched to rock and metal, and decided to just be the singer, and have two guitarists with me. I did that for years, until 2016. I just used the guitar occasionally to write all the songs.

It wasn't until late 2016 that I started getting back into playing a lot more, and taking it really serious. That eventually got me into tone chasing.

I am pushing myself as hard as I can, since that is the only way you improve. When you push yourself really hard, you will stumble and fall. Or play sharp and flat notes even if you nailed the solos every time at rehearsal. All I can do is keep trying, and keep pushing.

I still have a long way to go, and will still probably never be anywhere near as good as my guitar heroes. But, I don't let that stop me from chasing the tones I love, and getting cool gear, and buying sweet guitars from the 80s. That all brings me joy. I go out on stage at least once a month, and get irritated that I can't hear myself well, and get thrown off, and play bad notes. And then I remember that I'm having a blast playing with my friends and building lasting memories. And sometimes, the **** is just magic, in spite of all the chaos of the gig.

I've been playing for 24 years now, and play like I've only been at it for about 5. I suck at playing clean. I butcher 50% of my solos. And I'm going to keep going anyway, since I'm having a blast. I have fantasized about playing Photograph on guitar since I was a little kid. And now I finally did it. And I didn't do the best job of it, but it sure felt good.

I'd like to think that, in spite of all of the above, the things I learned while building this rack are absolutely valid and useful. I'd like to think that the testing and experimenting and successes and failures I've had might be helpful to others (many of them being guitarists that can play circles around me).


I appreciate the heck out of you complementing my voice and my solo single in that music video. But it's a tenor's world, and I'm a baritone. And guitar is fun!
 

Wahrig

Member
Messages
21
I'm not sure if you realize this, but I am the player on the right, hitting all of those sharp and flat notes.

Let me break this all down for you. I started playing in 1998. I got into the punk and hardcore scene, and then skate punk and pop punk. I had a couple of record deals, put out a bunch of stuff, toured the country four times, etc. That whole time, I did nothing but play power chords. At 100 miles an hour. Not much growth of my chops. Then, in 2005, I switched to rock and metal, and decided to just be the singer, and have two guitarists with me. I did that for years, until 2016. I just used the guitar occasionally to write all the songs.

It wasn't until late 2016 that I started getting back into playing a lot more, and taking it really serious. That eventually got me into tone chasing.

I am pushing myself as hard as I can, since that is the only way you improve. When you push yourself really hard, you will stumble and fall. Or play sharp and flat notes even if you nailed the solos every time at rehearsal. All I can do is keep trying, and keep pushing.

I still have a long way to go, and will still probably never be anywhere near as good as my guitar heroes. But, I don't let that stop me from chasing the tones I love, and getting cool gear, and buying sweet guitars from the 80s. That all brings me joy. I go out on stage at least once a month, and get irritated that I can't hear myself well, and get thrown off, and play bad notes. And then I remember that I'm having a blast playing with my friends and building lasting memories. And sometimes, the **** is just magic, in spite of all the chaos of the gig.

I've been playing for 24 years now, and play like I've only been at it for about 5. I suck at playing clean. I butcher 50% of my solos. And I'm going to keep going anyway, since I'm having a blast. I have fantasized about playing Photograph on guitar since I was a little kid. And now I finally did it. And I didn't do the best job of it, but it sure felt good.

I'd like to think that, in spite of all of the above, the things I learned while building this rack are absolutely valid and useful. I'd like to think that the testing and experimenting and successes and failures I've had might be helpful to others (many of them being guitarists that can play circles around me).


I appreciate the heck out of you complementing my voice and my solo single in that music video. But it's a tenor's world, and I'm a baritone. And guitar is fun!
Really cool story!!!

The Rock Vibe on the concert is certainly there!

We need to admit that solos in Photograph are really difficult!

Phil Collen is a really good guitar player, not just a rock star. He nails it even in the last years:


(e.g. Slash does not))

So the solos are not easy to play.
Not too many notes but filled with bends, pre bends vibratos..

For most todays players (especially younger ones) it is a lot easier to learn a fast straigth 16th note line (MIDI\Petrucci\Mansoor etc - style) than to be precise in bends and vibrato.
First they have to develop an ear for that.. And then fingers hurt etc..
If you watch covers of Photograph on Youtube: most of them don't get it right!

and then on concerts it is even worse..

the Gibson scale guitar also does not help with tuning)..

if I learned this solo (which I really want after all this conversation and listening), i would never go out on the stage with a Gibson scaled guitar)) - too easy to miss the note


There is definitely also a non-musical sense in creating difficult setups: it trains the brain and logic)). And yes: helps other people).

PS: Tenors rule the Pop World, but for Rock it still is Baritone, isn't it?
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,897
yikes...that video
I'm so glad my life didn't go down that path!

Collen is a work out monster! and has been the whole way
hats off to those studs!!!
this dino rock is exactly that
the shocking vox are what they are (yikes!)

frankly, in 1983, I felt Pyromania paled compared to On Thru The Night...but that's just me...we were listening to The Chameleons UK on cassette on the hellish work commute...

Collen feels like the guy the AnR guys brought in to deal with Def Lep issues...I'm not saying I don't like him...he's fantastic

point is, this thread is the consummate @Tommy Von Voigt MEGA thread
...and we had a Boston tribute gig beforehand!

tommy, thanks for sharing (except the bare feet :barf)
if others can't learn bounds & oodles from this thread, there is no hope for the internet!
 

taj362

Member
Messages
33
It's great that you take all your babies out)

And the sound is obviously really good!

But on the other hand the video really cures my GAS to some extend:
the amount of sharp/flat notes in the solos (the player on the right side) makes me really want to sell 80% of my 150 dirt pedals, switchers and other excessive gear and stop all discussions about speakers or gear and spend the money and time for more lessons and excercising. I lose so much time here and often get close results like in the video

There is no point in having 2000-10000$ gear plus guitars/amps and speakers also don't matter
if most notes are not in tune...

I don't want to be rude! I'm saying this to myself, not to you))
Wow. Maybe you should have just said it to yourself and not typed it out. That is rude a s**t.
 
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Wahrig

Member
Messages
21
Wow. Maybe you should of just said it to yourself and not typed it out. That is rude a s**t.
May be especially because mr. Voigt is not showing off but is very humble.

But on the other hand how would we know his story otherwise?

Would you see that video otherwise?!

 

Wahrig

Member
Messages
21
Justify being an asshole however you like.
Stop whining.

Tom is a rocker, he does not need babysitting. We sort it out without your help.


And returning to this threads topic, facts stay:

concert is cool, vibe is there, sound is good.
But it is almost not possible to differenciate speakers on that recording.
But it is possible to recognize the notes.

That is a lesson for the readers of this thread
 

taj362

Member
Messages
33
Stop whining.

Tom is a rocker, he does not need babysitting. We sort it out without your help.


And returning to this threads topic, facts stay:

concert is cool, vibe is there, sound is good.
But it is almost not possible to differenciate speakers on that recording.
But it is possible to recognize the notes.

That is a lesson for the readers of this thread
Shouldn't you be practicing instead of posting..........
 

Jambo

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
300
I'm not sure if you realize this, but I am the player on the right, hitting all of those sharp and flat notes.

Let me break this all down for you. I started playing in 1998. I got into the punk and hardcore scene, and then skate punk and pop punk. I had a couple of record deals, put out a bunch of stuff, toured the country four times, etc. That whole time, I did nothing but play power chords. At 100 miles an hour. Not much growth of my chops. Then, in 2005, I switched to rock and metal, and decided to just be the singer, and have two guitarists with me. I did that for years, until 2016. I just used the guitar occasionally to write all the songs.

It wasn't until late 2016 that I started getting back into playing a lot more, and taking it really serious. That eventually got me into tone chasing.

I am pushing myself as hard as I can, since that is the only way you improve. When you push yourself really hard, you will stumble and fall. Or play sharp and flat notes even if you nailed the solos every time at rehearsal. All I can do is keep trying, and keep pushing.

I still have a long way to go, and will still probably never be anywhere near as good as my guitar heroes. But, I don't let that stop me from chasing the tones I love, and getting cool gear, and buying sweet guitars from the 80s. That all brings me joy. I go out on stage at least once a month, and get irritated that I can't hear myself well, and get thrown off, and play bad notes. And then I remember that I'm having a blast playing with my friends and building lasting memories. And sometimes, the **** is just magic, in spite of all the chaos of the gig.

I've been playing for 24 years now, and play like I've only been at it for about 5. I suck at playing clean. I butcher 50% of my solos. And I'm going to keep going anyway, since I'm having a blast. I have fantasized about playing Photograph on guitar since I was a little kid. And now I finally did it. And I didn't do the best job of it, but it sure felt good.

I'd like to think that, in spite of all of the above, the things I learned while building this rack are absolutely valid and useful. I'd like to think that the testing and experimenting and successes and failures I've had might be helpful to others (many of them being guitarists that can play circles around me).


I appreciate the heck out of you complementing my voice and my solo single in that music video. But it's a tenor's world, and I'm a baritone. And guitar is fun!
Tommy! I salute you, THAT is the attitude we should all have! When I was a younger man, I’d criticize everyone I’d see in the cover scene. Now I just commend everyone who does anything musical at any level… it‘s about FUN And anyone doing it gets a thumbs up from me.

I’m 61 and have been playing since I was 10. I’ve been making a living solely with guitar since I was 18, no “day gigs”. MANY top-ramen years, over a decade of touring 48+ full weeks per year in cover bands (you could do that in the 80s). Now I’m a homeowner (purchased 2 acres in the sticks and built this house 20 yrs ago) teaching guitar from my studio I built adjacent to my home and doing the occasional weekend warrior thing. I pinch myself every morning and count my blessings to be able to do nothing for income but to share my joy of playing guitar (with a commute of about 50 feet from home to studio)… living MY dream.

I have found this thread entertaining and educational for I still after all of these years buy way more gear than I should, always looking for the next tonal inspiration. Thanks man!
 

Jambo

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
300
Been pretty quiet around here. Tommy, c’mon bro! I miss reading all about the latest GAS and gear conquests!
 

Tommy Von Voigt

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
872
Been pretty quiet around here. Tommy, c’mon bro! I miss reading all about the latest GAS and gear conquests!

Sorry! I did get these new toys:

EFE9D43E-1E7A-4FDE-B6C0-0830B70EDADB.jpeg


298B3804-5A5F-4213-8EE2-13153182B3EF.jpeg


I’ve been hyper focused on show prep, learning songs, and working on some of my original material. But I just got those modules back from Rob at Jaded Faith. The Gainies is based on a Stein+, with a much different mid pot value that allows for some very, very aggressive mid boosting. The MKII J-Plex is based on a stock J-Plex, with added features (JCM/JTM switch, and clipping switch). Both have custom faceplates designed by me.

The Gainies is a finicky beast, that may not see regular use. It’s kind of too much. I may actually even reuse the name and artwork for a different module, TBD, since the name is just so damn good.

The MKII J-Plex may actually edge out the Synergy Plexi, which as you know, I am really into. Something about the way Rob voiced this module seems to be just right. I’m really looking forward to cranking it up with a full band!

I also redid my gain staging a bit. I cranked the 2:90 and brought the module and Syn-2 levels down, and of course I’m still using the Ashly output as a master volume. This was at Rob’s suggestion, and he was right. It does sound and feel better. I had tried that approach before, but slowly and steadily I’d moved away from it, and that seems to have been a mistake.
 

Jambo

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
300
Sorry! I did get these new toys:

View attachment 706512

View attachment 706513

I’ve been hyper focused on show prep, learning songs, and working on some of my original material. But I just got those modules back from Rob at Jaded Faith. The Gainies is based on a Stein+, with a much different mid pot value that allows for some very, very aggressive mid boosting. The MKII J-Plex is based on a stock J-Plex, with added features (JCM/JTM switch, and clipping switch). Both have custom faceplates designed by me.

The Gainies is a finicky beast, that may not see regular use. It’s kind of too much. I may actually even reuse the name and artwork for a different module, TBD, since the name is just so damn good.

The MKII J-Plex may actually edge out the Synergy Plexi, which as you know, I am really into. Something about the way Rob voiced this module seems to be just right. I’m really looking forward to cranking it up with a full band!

I also redid my gain staging a bit. I cranked the 2:90 and brought the module and Syn-2 levels down, and of course I’m still using the Ashly output as a master volume. This was at Rob’s suggestion, and he was right. It does sound and feel better. I had tried that approach before, but slowly and steadily I’d moved away from it, and that seems to have been a mistake.
Thanks for the update! “Edge out the Synergy Plexi” now you’ve got my attention! Did you ever get the chance to try out the Metroplex module?

I too have been redoing my gain staging. My LXII likes being cranked more than I’ve been using it. So I opened it up and started offsetting it by turning down the volume on the Syn2, much better, but still better yet was turning down the modules master volume and pushing the syn2 a bit more. It’s really not that amazing that these little tweaks make such a huge difference.

I’ve also found that my love for the creamback 75s have been waning. They’re great at lower volumes but when I start really pushing them they can get a bit harsh. I’m thinking I may just need more of them but really don’t want to be hauling a pair of 4x12s around. Did you ever grab another EV? I sold a pair of Scumback blackbacks a couple weeks ago, the guy asked if I was interested in EV for a trade scenario, my back immediately said NO. LOL
 

Tommy Von Voigt

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
872
Thanks for the update! “Edge out the Synergy Plexi” now you’ve got my attention! Did you ever get the chance to try out the Metroplex module?

I too have been redoing my gain staging. My LXII likes being cranked more than I’ve been using it. So I opened it up and started offsetting it by turning down the volume on the Syn2, much better, but still better yet was turning down the modules master volume and pushing the syn2 a bit more. It’s really not that amazing that these little tweaks make such a huge difference.

I’ve also found that my love for the creamback 75s have been waning. They’re great at lower volumes but when I start really pushing them they can get a bit harsh. I’m thinking I may just need more of them but really don’t want to be hauling a pair of 4x12s around. Did you ever grab another EV? I sold a pair of Scumback blackbacks a couple weeks ago, the guy asked if I was interested in EV for a trade scenario, my back immediately said NO. LOL

Yep, and that says a lot, since the Plexi module is pretty sweet. I have two Syn-2s, so the Plexi module is still in the mix. I’m actually having trouble deciding what I want to use the MKII J-Plex for, tbh. It sounds great for both rhythm and lead, but it has to be one or the other. It’s a single channel module, so no volume boost is available if I used it for both. I have a custom XTC module that I like for lead, as well. But I think I may actually prefer the J-Plex. Don’t let any of this upend any of your own plans, though. I’m really being ridiculous at this point.

I think what is giving the J-Plex the edge is that it’s brighter than the Synergy Plexi, and a little thinner. You’d think I would dislike it for those reasons, but I have become increasingly aware of my tendency to dial in a very dark tone. This is a risk we all can run when dialing in tones in isolation, and I tend to prefer darker tones. Too dark, in fact. My initial rack build was so dark that at the first rehearsal I brought it to, the bassist just swallowed my sound up entirely. It was like I wasn’t there at all. I fought and fought with the SLO module, but I couldn’t get a tone out of it that I liked without running into the problem of vanishing in the mix. This is one of the things that made me fall in love with the Plexi. The bassist even commented “oh wow it actually sounds like a guitar now!” But when I compare the Plexi to the J-Plex, while they are remarkably close, the Plexi does still have a little bit of flub, and is a little muddier. The J-Plex is brighter and thinner, without sounding bright and thin.

I still haven’t tried a Metroplex, though I’d really like to!

I don’t actually have an EV, but I did get a Celestion Cream, which I put in an oversized Diezel 2x12, paired with a Mesa V30. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to? I’ll admit, the jury is still out on that pairing. The cab feels really good and sounds really full, but I did a gig over the weekend with just that cab, and it was absolute mud. It was just lost. Granted, the acoustics of the room were terrible (seriously, you have no idea), and I was prevented from turning up too loud, and I was right next to a bass amp that was too loud and completely distorted, so I’m not about to do anything rash to that cab just yet.
 

communarchy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,026
Yep, and that says a lot, since the Plexi module is pretty sweet. I have two Syn-2s, so the Plexi module is still in the mix. I’m actually having trouble deciding what I want to use the MKII J-Plex for, tbh. It sounds great for both rhythm and lead, but it has to be one or the other. It’s a single channel module, so no volume boost is available if I used it for both. I have a custom XTC module that I like for lead, as well. But I think I may actually prefer the J-Plex. Don’t let any of this upend any of your own plans, though. I’m really being ridiculous at this point.

I think what is giving the J-Plex the edge is that it’s brighter than the Synergy Plexi, and a little thinner. You’d think I would dislike it for those reasons, but I have become increasingly aware of my tendency to dial in a very dark tone. This is a risk we all can run when dialing in tones in isolation, and I tend to prefer darker tones. Too dark, in fact. My initial rack build was so dark that at the first rehearsal I brought it to, the bassist just swallowed my sound up entirely. It was like I wasn’t there at all. I fought and fought with the SLO module, but I couldn’t get a tone out of it that I liked without running into the problem of vanishing in the mix. This is one of the things that made me fall in love with the Plexi. The bassist even commented “oh wow it actually sounds like a guitar now!” But when I compare the Plexi to the J-Plex, while they are remarkably close, the Plexi does still have a little bit of flub, and is a little muddier. The J-Plex is brighter and thinner, without sounding bright and thin.

I still haven’t tried a Metroplex, though I’d really like to!

I don’t actually have an EV, but I did get a Celestion Cream, which I put in an oversized Diezel 2x12, paired with a Mesa V30. Maybe that’s what you’re referring to? I’ll admit, the jury is still out on that pairing. The cab feels really good and sounds really full, but I did a gig over the weekend with just that cab, and it was absolute mud. It was just lost. Granted, the acoustics of the room were terrible (seriously, you have no idea), and I was prevented from turning up too loud, and I was right next to a bass amp that was too loud and completely distorted, so I’m not about to do anything rash to that cab just yet.

Love to hear the J-Plex is working for you, and those custom options seem awesome. I've been GASing for a new JF module I just don't know what I want, or have been able to find any donor modules! I find that in general, Friedman stuff (he did the Plexi module, as I'm sure you know), has a slight roll off on the top end that some people find pleasing in his amps and objectionable in original Marshalls, but it's really apart of the classic Marshall sound. It's probably why I haven't got on with much Friedman stuff, but I'll applaud him for finding a way to easy the top end of the Marshall sound, increase the gain, yet still maintain string clarity. They just don't have that upper presence "zing" or "kerrang" a Marshall does. It sounds like the J-Plex retains this. I thought the Plexi module was better than any BE platform I've used, but having owned a handful of Superleads and 800s in my day, the Plexi module still has a touch of his characteristic top end smoothing. It's a fine line between too bright and just right!

In general, my rule of thumb with setting brightness has always been that if I dig in and bang some chords or notes and it's slightly uncomfortable to stand next to it, it's going to work perfectly in a live mix when the snare, other guitar, and cymbals are eating up that space. It's just gotta hurt, just a little bit. I think that's why Marshall's work so well in a mix.

I'm going to be honest, I think you've found the fatal flaw of that Alnico Cream, and it's why I've yet to find a good use for them. They just have way too much low-mid fullness and it sounds big by itself, but it gets in the way in a band setting and kills any clarity on stage. My suggestion would be that perhaps an Creamback H75 would pair well in that cab, especially with the darker/fuller sound of the Mesa V30 (my favorite V30). The H75 retains the mid texture of the Cream, but it tightens the mud and brings clarity to the top. But if it's too tight/bright, I also though the Redback was a really full sounding speaker, darker in character but with good clarity and authority.
 

Jambo

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
300
“Kerrang” is the best adjective for it without A doubt! As a lover of 4-hole Marshalls it’s that KERRANG that gets me excited And nothing else really does it. Everything I’ve tried “including the synergy’ is an approximation. It’s a great tone, don’t get me wrong… but it’s not A PLEXI. The days of playing coliseums without monitor systems and adequate PA’s are long gone so cranking up a real plexi without attenuation (because low wattage speakers moving serious air is part of the equation as well) is only gonna happen in a studio. Best we can hope for is “plexi-ish” … I’ve never really thought about the Friedman analogy as the designer of the plexi module, but you hit it the nail on the head… it’s got a ton more gain and that top end has been tamed. It’s my favorite higher gain module I’ve tried for certain, but it’s missing the “Kerrang”… definitely more of a modded plexi tone.

Tell me more about the Redback as it compares to the creamback H75
 




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