Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by JoshuaTSP, May 22, 2008.
"Thick as molasses"
There's no way of getting this tone........
Some guys at Plexi Palace forum tried original 60's Marshall JTM45 combo, Les Paul and Rangemaster treble booster and they said they were pretty near.
Here's the thread:
Of course, the Beano album amp sound is not really what the LP/amp combo sounded like. You have to go back to some contemporary raw recordings made of Mayall's band in clubs around England and Scotland to hear something approximating the real thing.
Obviously on the album, the sound was heavily processed through tons of outboard tube gear, tube mixing desks, tape delay, Brit EQ and tube mics, not to mention tape saturation and mastering tube gear including tube compressors.
I'm sorry, you are not allowed to say "Beano" on this forum.
"Beano" use is only permitted on the lespaulforum, where it is complusory in every second thread title.
Permitted words here include "Dumble", "Robben" and "D-style".
You have been awarded 5 infraction points for this offense.
You're on the right track but it's not quite right.
I used to work with Mike Vernon back in the sixties and early seventies and asked him specifically about this recording - because it has always been something of a Holy Grail tonewise.
1. No pedals of any kind or description were used by Eric between his Les Paul and the Marshall (this is borne out by existing photos of the session).
2. Yes, the valve board at Decca contributed immensely to the sound being slightly overdriven itself.
3. The only outboard "EFX" used was a touch of Reverb occasionally. I use inverted comma's because it was a natural reverb system consisting of a little used stairwell.
He is being a little modest because the whole record sounds so much better than "Fresh Cream" which was made later the same year. Why does it sound so good? Eric was on "fire" and played with extraordinarily exuberance.
Bill Chapin has a "boot" of the Bluesbreakers playing "Klook's Kleek" (the pub next door to the studios) where Eric is using a Tele through the same Marshall and that sounds almost as good. It was recorded a couple of weeks earlier.
Trust this helps.
There is absolutely a way of getting it, or as close as you're going to get.
I'm not Clapton(yea, I know, I spent a lot of years pretending) but, my
Louis Electric Blues Breaker 2-12 nails it.
I posted a review here if you do a search; or follow the link on Lou's site to his forum. I wouldn't lie, this amp kills, ridiculous bloom, effortless harmonic feedback, old school distortion, absolutely no pedals necesaary. In fact, one of the channels is tweeked to simulate a Rangmaster. Definitely worth investigating.
I think a lot of people "think" they get that tone.....but from what I can tell, they normally don't have the same characteristics.
But....hell......Clapton doesn't even sound like clapton anymore.
As you know, Pete, I've been preaching this for years.
But I have given up. It is now a well established internet fact that Clapton used a Rangemaster, and even Clapton himself couldn't change that anymore.
What gets me is that an original Rangemaster is such a unique and distinct sounding effect, you'd have to be either completely deaf or have never heard a Rangemaster to believe there's one on the Beano album.
Yes - I keep saying that I will not post on this subject again. Too many people have "read it on the internet" rather than ask the guys that were actually around back then.
Do you think I am wasting my valuable time?
Later, Hogy, lets go fishing!
I love the way bogus names are fabricated over time, usually by folks who weren't there. "Plexi" is an excellent example. There was never a Marshall "Plexi" model. Likewise, the "Bluesbreakers, John Mayall with Eric Clapton" album was not titled "Beano."
Rather than obsessing over minute details of a recorded sound which was likely due as much to accident as to intent - originally mastered for LP, and which EC never got precisely the same before or since - it would be far more productive to study the phrasing and dynamics of EC's playing on that record. Nailing the "tone" may or may not be achievable to anyone's satisfaction. Who cares? My money says EC didn't and still doesn't. Learning the chops and how to use them musically will reliably recreate the musical effect, however.
got to agree with davebc on the louis amp .... smokin
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton (aka the 'Beano' album) was one of those moments when it all come together. Clapton is on fire! The song selection is great. And the combination of JTM45 Combo cranked to 'gig volume' is perfect. Clapton's long gone Les Paul had the 'it' factor too. It's pointless to speculate as to the pedals, effects, etc. that were used. Just sit back, listen, and enjoy...
I love the pure tones on Fresh Cream as well. The lead on I Feel Free still gives me chills. I sure didn't realize that the Mayall effort and Fresh Cream were recorded so closely apart.. very interesting.
The Beano album was a primer for me and a lot of guitarists.. I raced right out and bought a Les Paul and practiced those leads day and night.
Many guys who try to recreate that tone make the mistake of using too much gain.
Don't forget that a Bluesbreaker combo is a tremolo amp, and the trem bleeds off gain as compared to a regular JTM45. So even a JTM45 on ten is too gainy already, add any kind of boost on top of that and it's gonna be way off.
Then there's "that" Les Paul. It is a very unique one with a certain bite at the attack that's hard to come by. It's like a monster Tele, almost.
Even among original PAF Les Pauls very, very few sound just like that. Witness Clapton himself who never got that sting again after that guitar was stolen. It was a one of a kind.
That guitar plays a bigger role in the Beano tone than the amp. A friend of mine has a '60 LP Standard that sounds identical to Clapton's. In fact, it's so close in looks and tone that for many years, before the internet and when only a handful of poor quality pictures of the original guitar were available to us, we seriously suspected it might indeed be the one. With that guitar you can get so close it will fool you, even without a Bluesbreaker amp. The closest I ever heard was that guitar through a 1970 50W Bass Marshall halfstack.
To me it always sounded like a guy on top of his game, playing loud, through a good amp.
But you can't sell that-there HAS to be a secret!
Yes! I've always thought that. And it makes sense that he couldn't find a similar Paul.
Not saying these necessarily sound like it either, but I always got closer with a Les Paul Jr. Not that I'm a good gauge. I pretty much always sound the same, no matter what I use (at least for overdriven lead playing).
Siggie Schwartz had an original 60th that sounded like Clapton't Les Paul.