CLEANest,one channel amp kit? low wattage/high headroom

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by missing_dave, Sep 11, 2008.

  1. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    love the clean blackface tones..looking to build a kit for a amp (for club use) that is just clean? not looking for a loud amp.just low watt but high headroom.

    was thinking the D'lite OD 22/33 cause the drive it has seems like a great bonus.but most importantly (to me) how is the clean tone?
    the allen hot fudge with nuts looks cool too.

    ill make it clear i DO NOT want drive though as i like my pedals and the options they give..just need the "clean palette" sound. playing strat, fralin 54's and i like that cleaner say mayer or clean light drive country tones..thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2008
  2. 3m3r5

    3m3r5 Member

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    I believe the blackface Princeton noverbs stay clean up to 10!
     
  3. sabby

    sabby Member

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    Amps inspired by small Brownfaces are more Marshall than Blackface: lots of grit and early breakup. The big Browns have clean headroom, but these are larger than what you want.

    As far as kits go, The Weber Lauren has always intrigued me. It a single-ended 25w amp that uses one 807 tube, which was usually used for radios and PAs. It's supposed to be clean, dynamic, and sustaining in a package the size of a tweed princeton.
     
  4. mcgriff420

    mcgriff420 Member

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    Personally I wouldn't go with the D'lite for clean. Mine had a very lackluster clean tone and the drive was OK. I really wanted to like that amp but it was out the door within a month. Talk to David Allen about which of his kits would work for you. http://www.allenamps.com/index.php

    Maybe check out Fuchs new 'clean machine' -though I don't think it's available as a kit.

    ..
     
  5. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    hmm.. interesting. have heard all good stuff about the d'lite? (or its drive i should say not its cleans)
    and yes allen is on my list! just sent david an email tried a hot fudge in a store for just a few minutes a little while back (when i wasnt looking for an amp) and really loved it but didnt get a sense what 6 and up would do (small store)
     
  6. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    yeah looks cool, hard to tell what the weber kits are like? i guess the pics help with "oh that looks like a marshall" and seeing some of the tubes that make up the amp? but i dont know much more than that ?
    maybe ill email them too?

    anybody got any weber kit info
     
  7. PRNDL

    PRNDL Member

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    Here's a complex answer.

    Headroom usually refers to how much volume there is between low volume notes and high volume cutoff. Increasing headroom can be accomplished by changing the anode and cathode resistors to bias the preamp tubes so that the cathode voltage is 1/2 B+ or 1/3 B+ for the LTP.
    Preamp bias is one of the most common ways of creating distortion in tube amps.

    Of course, don't forget to bias the output tubes on the cold side. Some people replace the tube rectifier with solid state, which eliminates sag.

    Very old amps are at a disadvantage because the AC voltage has increased, which increases B+ and changes the bias point. IMHO, that's why it's so hard to get a vintage amp to sound like it did back then. In some cases, people prefer that (for example, a Deluxe has more grit).

    To answer your question, I'd look for an amp with high B+ voltages and plenty of watts, which would give great cleans in a club.

    A Twin Reverb is the most common choice and is the industry workhorse. It will distort when turned up, but that's very loud. The downside is its size and weight. The upside is the prices on these amps are rock bottom.

    Another choice would be a 6L6 amp, such as the Pro, Super or Bandmaster Reverb. All were designed for the pro musician.

    My current favorite is the Bandmaster Reverb. I repaired a mint one for Real Guitars in Fort Myers. The tone was glorious, and very affordable at $900 with a speaker cab. Of course, it's the size of a small fridge.

    As for kits, you'd be looking for a pair of 6L6's with a big speaker. Something like a Deluxe Reverb with 6L6's and upgraded power and output transformers.
     
  8. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    The '65 Princeton Amp has glorious black face clean tone for days and stays clean all the way to 10. That is assuming 15W will do it for you.

    Tweed Bandmasters, Supers, low power Twins, and their ilk (all the same circuit with different cab and speaker configs) also have awesome cleans with the added bonus of some singing lead tone.
     
  9. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    does this ring true for the reissues or other cheaper years like the 70's silver face ones? id assume not much power and transformer wise was changed?

    think im gonna do a head version so i can do a nice small 12inch cab...
     
  10. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    This is the Princeton Amp--not the Princeton Reverb. They sound very different from each other. The Reverb version does not have nearly as much clean headroom.
     
  11. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    ahh..thanks thats a big help to know this...stinks as i was hoping for reverb..

    been looking at the accomplice (by allen amps) seems like a good choice for the headroom,BF tone etc....got a nice descriptive email from david allen.

    any one build or buy and accomplice?
     
  12. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    While I agree that the PR has less clean headroom than the P, it still had plenty and would be a very good choice if weight is an issue. Another great choice would be a used Alessandro: they have very high headroom and are very light, the Working Dogs might even have reverb. One of the problems here is that, in addition to high B+ and 6L6s, clean amps need big transformers which usually means more weight! Still, as said above, a 6L6 amp with the Princeton preamp would be EXACTLY what you want!
     
  13. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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    so now (and ive been looking) does anybody make this simple, single channel,6L6,big transformer amp?? it seems simple??

    seems that this works:
    http://www.allenamps.com/accomplice.php

    notice the 22watt or 35 depending on tube choice..as the transformer can handle it.
     
  14. theroan

    theroan Member

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  15. The_Whale

    The_Whale Member

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    an EVM-12L speaker will make a clean amp louder.
     
  16. Dana Olsen

    Dana Olsen Gold Supporting Member

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    Somewhat - the SF ones can be really cool, or not so cool - some of 'em just plain 'feel' bad to me when I play through them.

    The good news is that in the hands of a good tech, virtually any SF amp can be made to sound good. If you're going to convert to a head, maybe try a BF Bassman or SF Bassman head ... plenty headroom available there. Maybe just a SF Vibrolux w/ 2x10's - not too heavy, put more efficient speakers in it, bias it cold, you'd be done. Even a Deluxe non reverb, biased cold. I think you'll get a lot more headroom out of a 6L6 config than a 6V6.

    Good Luck, Dana O.
     
  17. Jason_86_951

    Jason_86_951 Supporting Member

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  18. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Supporting Member

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    Howzabout a Trainwreck clone?

    Or a Frenzel?
     
  19. missing_dave

    missing_dave Member

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  20. Steve Dallas

    Steve Dallas Supporting Member

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    Another cool option would be a blackface Champ kit with a 6L6 for about 11W. You didn't really specify how much power you want, but that is a very cool sounding combination IMHO. And it eats pedals :)
     

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