contributing factors still firmly in place ?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Dave Shoop, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Dave Shoop

    Dave Shoop Member

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    The sexual harassment flood gates are now wide open. I would expect a large percentage of the male population is wondering if the hammer will reach them. Like many things in human behavior you hope eventually the "wrongs" done will end.
    Focusing on the current hot topic. Do you believe women being seen as sex objects and even the widely accepted marketing them as such contributes to the behavior now being crusaded against ?

    Do strip clubs, explicit movies (now offered on your towns cable systems ) advertising product using the standard "sex sells" approach, Victoria Secrets, professional and now amateur cheer leading outfits and routines etc, etc etc all things that in reality use women as sex objects actually encourage the bad behavior many men will now be tarred and feathered for ? ( I'm not saying this is a bad thing, they brought it on themselves but ...... )

    From what I've witnessed in my lifetime the list of those who could be charged or accused is almost endless and runs through all walks of life, education, business, private and public sector etc, etc, etc.

    This could become an almost never ending shirtstorm. Do we continue to promote bad behavior by objectifying women ? This is also done by women themselves as well. It's not totally a male manipulation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  2. FbIsNotE

    FbIsNotE Member

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    Personal responsibility is the Alpha / Omega of the issue. I am not wondering or worried about the hammer.
     
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  3. sundog964

    sundog964 Supporting Member

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    Well, start by banning most Hip Hop. The young generation is not doing it subtly, rather in your face objectification.
     
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  4. AZChilicat

    AZChilicat Member

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  5. sanrico

    sanrico Member

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    Yes, I do believe it is part of the same problem. More than the "sex" part, it's the "objects" part. It often manifests itself as sexual behavior, but the use of another person as an object you have power over seems to be a core issue.
     
  6. Social Exodus

    Social Exodus Lone Wolf

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    If anyone needs me, I'll just be sitting and staring into an empty corner so as to avoid unnecessary eye contact with members of the opposite sex.

    Can't be too careful these days.
     
  7. fetishfrog

    fetishfrog Member

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    And rock and roll, don't forget rock and roll.
     
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  8. pickaguitar

    pickaguitar 2011 TGP Silver Medalist Silver Supporting Member

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    The sexually bold are clashing with the those that aren't and I think there is a blurred line in the middle contributing to a lot of confusion.
     
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  9. teleguy1974

    teleguy1974 Member

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    Only on TGP could banning hip hop be proposed as the solution to sexual harassment :facepalm
     
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  10. Motterpaul

    Motterpaul Tone is in the Ears

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    I recall the movie "House Bunny" where Anna Faris has a line about the Playboy Mansion where she says "You know, it's just a place where boys will be boys.... thank God!" - And then I think about the last SNL skit I saw where all the Fems in cast say 'It's hell" to be subjected constantly (I assume that was the gist).

    So - it seems the tide is turning. In my younger days boys were boys, and women would say "you just have to learn how to deal with it." And most women did know how to deal with it, with a firm "no". It seems one thing that changed is the definition of sexual assault (and it's impossible to ignore that there are certain social forces in play here). It has changed from outright physical force, to unwanted advances, so to speak. A "forceful" kiss, or a pinch on the buttocks, are today considered assault in some cases. That is new, IMO. In the office those are not good, but in a nightclub it happens all the time.

    In the old days men were expected to make the first move, but gentlemen waited for a sign and also backed off if they had mistaken the signs. But there were always some guys who took advantage of positions of power. In the old days women who spoke out were ostracized. Today, we are learning they will come back to bite you.

    That is all that has changed - that when it is expedient, women will speak out even if it 10, 20, 30 years later. What has not changed is that men still deny the charges, and it still boils down to his word vs hers.
     
  11. EricPeterson

    EricPeterson Member

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    What about the countless men that are exposed to this and are not out there raping, assaulting and harassing women. I thought men were supposed to be able to think for themselves, exercise restraint and rise above their base instincts.
     
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  12. killinears

    killinears Supporting Member

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    The vast majority do. Those who believe they are above or beyond the law or too powerful do not. IMHO, this is far less than 1% of the male population and just another circus to entertain us while the thieves plunder.
     
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  13. Dave Shoop

    Dave Shoop Member

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    Evidently not in many cases. How pervasive this is is somewhat unknown. Is this the tip of the iceberg or is it isolated instances ? Do people not report it due to shame or fear of retribution ? Will more and more claims be made now that the support to come out about it is building ? Will the next lawyer commercials seen on TV be " Sexually mistreated at work or school ? I'll make them pay. " We will see.
     
  14. EricPeterson

    EricPeterson Member

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    I think the bigger issue is not necessarily the men who are perpetrators, but rather the men who have observed this kind of behavior and turned a blind eye, made excuses, failed to act to prevent or intervene, tacitly accepted it, etc. I think a lot of us would have a hard time saying we have never fallen into that camp.
     
  15. forum_crawler

    forum_crawler Member

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    Given the response to some of the photos on the funny picture thread, I will go ahead and assume that (while not the same thing), doing away with the mentality that leads some to make working environments less welcoming to others will take some time.
     
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  16. 84superchamp

    84superchamp Silver Supporting Member

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    Current fashion and Hollywood pushes the "sex sells" as far as they can within the law. The current trend of taking it out on innocents (those unwilling to be pawed) is a direct result IMO.
     
  17. Dave Shoop

    Dave Shoop Member

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    I've heard that response to similar behavioral issues. I guess the question is if the majority of people aren't affected but having said that it does affect negatively the behavior of a significant number do we ignore that ? That is the question I am presenting. Does making women "objects" lead to bad behaviors ? If the answer is most no but some yes are we happy living with that or is it just shrugging off responsibility ?
     
  18. forum_crawler

    forum_crawler Member

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    I am not sure if I agree with you on this one...

    Simply because it places responsibilities on other parties. Much like assuming it is your neighbours job to call the cops if they feel that you are yelling at your kids too much, or your wife, or simply they find something that you do objectionable. If on the other hand, you see someone at work grabbing someone's @ss and they are clearly not happy about it, then it may make sense to intervene, or to at the very least make it obvious that you are now a witness.

    I am not sure that the burden on policing others is mine.
     
  19. great-case.com

    great-case.com a.k.a. "Mitch"

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    I am lucky, I have one from the other team on my side to help me learn, evolve and participate in the continuing effort to improve this situation. When my wife notices my knuckles dragging, she helps me find a better way to think about what's going on. OTOH, she certainly appreciates her own liberties and knows that this whole thing is a two way street. I doubt the avergae women could be as wise and open minded as my wife, but at the end of the day even she says that most men are way behind the ball when it comes to keeping their 'willies' off their own minds.
     
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  20. EricPeterson

    EricPeterson Member

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    IMO, helping those who lack avenues for redress is our moral responsibility. The line can certainly be blurry in some instances.
     
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