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corgan vs cobain

billy or kurt

  • corgan

    Votes: 150 39.5%
  • cobain

    Votes: 230 60.5%

  • Total voters
    380

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
surprised there wasn't a thread for this.

let's just confine this to

gish vs bleach
siamese dream vs nevermind

introducing mellon collie would make the comparison even more unfair.

edit: it's not even a fair comparison if you ask me. flame away
 

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
i'm not shocked the poll is already going the way it is, lol.

i am not a fan of every song on mellon collie but i can pick out probably 1 disc's worth that would have made it stronger.

i thought we were strictly evaluating musicianship, but it's understandable if some find it hard to draw a line somewhere.
 

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
Why did you think that?
because when we compare someone's body of work (in this case i used the first two albums of their respective bands as an example), it's easy to start penalising their contribution when you consider external factors.

if we strictly evaluate their music, then we can decompose their contribution into the parts.
hawkmoon269's answer was a little more of what i expected and probably the best/simplest decomposition: songwriting and technical ability.

when you start talking about corgan's self-assured nature, then we are veering outside of what is on the discs. but i understand where you're coming from. for many people music is more than just the contribution on the disc, it's about the person.

i personally don't think billy is a bad person (the exact opposite), but i do admit i can see how others perceive him as arrogant. however i don't think that should allow us to penalise what's on the disc.

in my opinion i think billy corgan is a great songwriter, but of course he's a superior guitarist.

i will admit both cobain and corgan's lyrics are a bit too "emo" for me, but they are both great writers.
 

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
These two statements are contradictory. If it isn't a fair comparison, then we shouldn't be surprised that nobody bothered to make a thread about it.
well, it's not going in the way that would support my original assertion, so while i may be seen as the for thinking it would go the other way, is till think it's not a fair comparison.

i guess billy's attitude makes it harder for others to empathise. i think he's one of the greatest individuals in the history of american music. for the longest time it was jeff buckley, but jeff is now #2.

edit: oceania proved he still had it, to me. i haven't checked out stuff since then. in fact, oceania was the first album of billy's that i listened to thoroughly before going to gish, siamese dream and mellon collie.
 

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
I think the name “Mellon Collie” alone is worth penalization.
if only it had been one disc.

galapogos
here is no why
tonight tonight
bullet with butterfly wings
ruby power
cupid
1979
muzzle
porcelina
zero
love

that's not even 14 songs but yeah, a little long.

for sure i like gish and siamese dream more. and the quality of the b-sides of the first two albums are far superior too.
 

twoheadedboy

Member
Messages
12,594
well, it's not going in the way that would support my original assertion, so while i may be seen as the for thinking it would go the other way, is till think it's not a fair comparison.

i guess billy's attitude makes it harder for others to empathise. i think he's one of the greatest individuals in the history of american music. for the longest time it was jeff buckley, but jeff is now #2.

edit: oceania proved he still had it, to me. i haven't checked out stuff since then. in fact, oceania was the first album of billy's that i listened to thoroughly before going to gish, siamese dream and mellon collie.
FWIW, I prefer Cobain and I think he had a greater impact. Nevermind is usually seen as the album that truly ended the commercial dominance of glam and hair metal, and Siamese Dream is not.
 

broly

loser
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
94
FWIW, I prefer Cobain and I think he had a greater impact. Nevermind is usually seen as the album that truly ended the commercial dominance of glam and hair metal, and Siamese Dream is not.
i think siamese dream is a far, far, far superior album. but they are both great there is no question.

but the worst songs on siamese dream are geek usa, silver**** and quiet (and disarm if i had my way lol)

i found everything after #6 on nevermind to be subpar. that's just my opinion of course. are the first 6 songs outstanding? yes, they are.

i would agree that in utero vs mellon collie could go in the way of cobain because the volume of mellon collie really hurts its best songs. but comparing the cream of each album would give it to mellon collie. however some rightfully argue that's not how you rate albums.

To me, Cobain and Nirvana are in the upper echelons of music quality and history, whereas Corgan/SP are forever in the “also-ran” category. (And I like Corgan and SP.)
unfair. but the problem is everything after the "first 3" causes corgan's overall contribution to get diluted.

if you want to do that (which is fine), then you should also agree that RUSH is overratted outside of moving pictures and 2112
 

twoheadedboy

Member
Messages
12,594
i think siamese dream is a far, far, far superior album. but they are both great there is no question.

but the worst songs on siamese dream are geek usa, silver**** and quiet (and disarm if i had my way lol)

i found everything after #6 on nevermind to be subpar. that's just my opinion of course. are the first 6 songs outstanding? yes, they are.

i would agree that in utero vs mellon collie could go in the way of cobain because the volume of mellon collie really hurts its best songs. but comparing the cream of each album would give it to mellon collie. however some rightfully argue that's not how you rate albums.
I'm not going to debate which album is better. That's a matter of personal preference.
 






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