Couldn't resist...upgraded from the DT25 to the DT50...!

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Axe-Man, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    I really like the DT series. Seriously, they are great, versitile amps...but I found the DT25 had one major failing...

    The DT whilst '25' watts isn't really 25 watts...it's 15 watts (as it uses two EL84s).

    So when you use Class A it drops down to '10' watts (which is L6 speak for prob 7.5 watts). If you then run Triode mode, you're prob about 4 watts.

    You see the problem?

    Class A and Triode actually can sound really good...but it's not very gig friendly!!

    I found the DT25 just didn't have enough headroom for cleans but was very loud for driven tones. They really are pretty loud and sounded really nice for driven sounds but they just weren't loud enough clean (kinda no real surprise here)...and this was using Pentode/Class A/B...forget class A and Triode.

    So I rang up and wrangled a deal to swap my DT25 for a DT50 demo head.

    So far, it sounds bigger and fuller and I'm hanging to wind it right up.

    I already feel the Class A/Triode setting is now much more useful and the Recto sim is a fuller sounding.

    I've got to straight up say that the DT series are really awesome amps! I'm loving mine more and more and more...with my Kingsley pedal they are freakin great.

    I am very surprised that L6 nailed it so well. PODs etc are great, useful, fairly synthetic devices but this...I'm really quite impressed.
     
  2. DRS

    DRS Member

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    I wonder why they didn't go dual 6V6 on the DT25? I've always found 6V6 amps to sound fuller at clean volumes than EL84 amps.
     
  3. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    One reason may be that EL84's are not very expensive, almost the price of preamp tubes. You have many manufacturers choices as well. Maybe Line 6 uses them as they are popular right now, or maybe because Bogner likes them.

    You can get 17-20 watts out of them, but you have to drive them with higher plate voltages than the data sheet calls for. Lots of amp manufacturers do this though; Mesa started the ball rolling on this from what I've seen.

    Aspen Pittman claims that they sound like a half power EL34; they don't. EL84's can get sounding ratty rather quick if you do not carefully tweak your design. I don't like them at all, would much rather have a 6V6, which sound terrific.
     
  4. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Big tubes=Big sound. EL84'S just don't produce a large enough signature for playing live.
    As others have said, a 6v6 version would have been better. Especially with the JJ'S that are available. They can run at near 500 volts
     
  5. thesockmonster

    thesockmonster Member

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    I'm about to do the same...I love the size of the DT25, but with the LVM on both models, it's kind of moot to have the 25 for home use and be limited live.
     
  6. nodata2000

    nodata2000 Supporting Member

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    I'm amazed to hear the DT25 isn't loud enough for typical gigging. Maybe my ears are just really sensitive. Maybe I'm just a huge wuss. I haven't yet had a chance to gig with mine, so...
     
  7. thesockmonster

    thesockmonster Member

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    Oh, it's PLENTY loud to gig. I don't jive with the whole "headroom" argument, but I prefer slightly greasy, dirtied cleans anyway. I just want more OOMPH. I'm not to ashamed that it's partially a mentality thing, too.
     
  8. Maruuk

    Maruuk Member

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    Band settings always tend to eat up cleans from small amps surprisingly quick. You find yourself mushing out trying to get up to proper volume. Especially w/84s. My problem was always that the jump up to 6L6s in a club setting was a bit of overkill and hard to really push the power tubes the way you want without getting the club owner breathing down your neck. 6V6s in A/B have always seemed to be the sweet spot for me. And you can't beat their sound either for cleans or for their lovely bloom. Moreover, their inherent warmth proves the perfect antidote for a cold, digital front end as amply demonstrated by the SCXD.
     
  9. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    Oh the DT25 is actually a pretty loud amp. Any 15w plus amp is IMHO.

    When I go 'clean' I want it loud 'enough' without it driving noticably. What I found was that the DT25 was kinda bordering on that 'am I, aren't I' loud enough level and when using the Class A setting (and Triode) you then had even less headroom to work with.

    I believe the DT50 will definitely sort this.

    I do feel that I won't get to drive the power section as hard which the DT25 sounded great with. 6V6's may have been better (I've never owned a 6V6 amp so I have no idea) but the EL84 power section is really nice.

    I think personally that a well designed EL84 setup works great for drive as it's plenty loud. The DT25 also had loads of bottom end...IMHO, as much bottom end as you need without trying to be a bass player.

    The price difference was actually minor for the upgrade and whilst it's much larger (and a little heavier), the DT50 will have a much more useful clean sound and I'll be able to really exploit the power sections high level of flexibility.
     
  10. Johnny Vox

    Johnny Vox Member

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    Make no mistake, the DT50 is LOUD. I have the head and I don't think I've ever even taken the master volume to noon. I think at 3 o'clock it would blast a whole through the wall.
     
  11. hanales

    hanales Member

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    Axe-man,

    Mine just arrived and I got to plug my 50 combo in tonight for the first time for about an hour. I'm in LVM at the moment (the boy is sleeping) and the tones are just phenomenal.

    I can't wait to turn it up at practice tomorrow, although I'm not looking forward to redoing all of my patches :/
     
  12. thesockmonster

    thesockmonster Member

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    Fuuu...just found out I'm outside of GC's return policy by 5 days - apparently the 30 days starts when the item SHIPS, instead of when you actually pick it up from the store. Calling tomorrow to check...
     
  13. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    Yeah the tweaking of modelling gear is a PITA but at least this is actually very mild...more like an amp and some FX!

    The LVM sounds pretty beefy though I've run it in the normal mode at wife friendly volumes and it sounded pretty good. Need to give it a crank in the next few days...really looking forward to hearing how it goes loud as the 25 was great when wound up.

    Let us know how it goes at jam volumes!

    I guess if you end up offering them a little more $$, they'll prob make it happen.

    I did find the DT25 loud enough driven though. It actually really sounded nice with the power section running hot...the 50 is going to take quite a bit more pushing so I might try to get some things dialed in in class A mode and see if that helps out.
     
  14. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    I've tried to try the DT series in two separate stores and they both had issues (these were 50s, not 25... Can't find them anywhere to try). In one case the thing never came out of standby, in the other only two of the four modes gave any sound unless I was doing something wrong?
    Do both series have LVM?
    Axe-man, in PM you mentioned only the 25 allows you to take DI from the DT cab simulated out whilst defeating the internal speaker, is this correct?
    How different is the weight and size. I lifted the DT50 1x12 at the store and it's a beast at like 65lbs, right? But I do agree that only 2 EL84 might not be enough for realty clean headroom.
     
  15. derek_32999

    derek_32999 Member

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    Ya, even the head is around 40lbs... extension cab is around 20 or so iirc. Heavy bastid.
     
  16. thesockmonster

    thesockmonster Member

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    Yup, you called it. DT50 incoming!
     
  17. Axe-Man

    Axe-Man Member

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    Yeah the DT50 (so far) can't run the DI out when in standby. This isn't prob a huge issue but the DT25 has a very nice feature here IMHO.

    The combo's are pretty heavy. The DT50 2x12 I tested was a beast (weight wise). I got the head and as I've got a few cabs I'm sorted. I'm running the DT into a couple of Orange 1x12's at the moment and it sounds good. Pretty portable rig as the head is way lighter than something like a Marshall Plexi!

    Both amps have LVM.

    Sounds like there were issue with the amps you tried. The topologies should have made sound as it's select topology, dial up volume, master and you're off. They are very simple though kinda deep when you get into them at the same time.

    The head isn't small (it's slightly bigger than a small Marshall headcab) but it's not that heavy (compared to all tube heads). The combo's are heavy and need a set of casters.

    Great stuff! Let us know what you think!
     
  18. derek_32999

    derek_32999 Member

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    Yup, I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a DT50 head. Sounds like the ticket. Then again, my HD500 into my FRFR sounds damn nice already. lol
     

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