Counterfeit Rip Off

standard24

Member
Messages
9,080
I'd like to hear from some TGP'ers who have ordered from this company.

The Chinese are capable of building a guitar as fine as anyone else in the world. For these prices, I would not expect a world class instrument, but I might expect a decent one.

In this case, they are selling directly to the consumer, so all of the profit is theirs. (A basic Chinese ceiling fan, sold by Home Depot for $19.99, costs $.17 to build in China). For the full $500 price, they could build a VERY good instrument.

As far as copying the shape, logo, name, etc., I'll leave it up to others to be indignant for me. I don't feel sorry for Rolex.
 

HendrixVibrato

Have some experience...
Messages
628
Disgusting, IMO.

If they put 1/10th the effort into doing some "original" work that they do in copying everyone else's blood, sweat & tears thru the design, testing, validation, finishing, marketing etc. phases - they might come up with something.

Reminds me of Thailand in the 80's - world's HQ for bootlegging of software. You could get a complete documented (via small paperback) copy of AutoCad 2.6 for $280 delivered in the U.s. - roughly 1/10th the cost of buying a legal copy in those days.

I'll stop here as I don't wish to be in violation of TGP's policies specifically about this sort of thing. I also hope I have not offended anyone, but then, I wasn't conceived with being "PC" correct as the primary goal or even a significant consideration of/in my life.

Be well,
 
Messages
23,926
Rats.

I thought this thread was about some sleazeball counterfeiter who spent a lot of his own time and money smuggling fake stuff into the USA..........

Only to have it all stolen from him.

I love those kinds of news stories; they make me smile!
 

Psychotronic

Member
Messages
800
One could make the argument that these cheap knock-offs don't cut into sales of the real deal, due to the significant cost differential. If you'd settle for a $400 copy, you were probably never in the market for the real deal at $3k.
 

Luke

Senior Member
Messages
11,898
China and the Chinese do not worry about intellectual property rights yet, because they simply copy stuff today. Eventually their middle class kids that come to America for a college education will return home to invent something from scratch. When these counterfeiters dig into their sales, the uproar will begin.
 

standard24

Member
Messages
9,080
The world is changing. Everything can be copied. Some people will create a new guitar/song/car/software, others will mimic. The fashion industry has done this forever, and nobody complained. Ideas can no longer be protected.

How will this affect us in the next 25 years?
 

Rumble

Instrumental Rocker
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,507
I'm gonna call some official Fender/Gibson dealers and ask if they price match!
 

mango

Member
Messages
4,910
As wrong as it is,at least that site is upfront about their trademark infringement.
Lots of others are not so forthcoming .
 

standard24

Member
Messages
9,080
Why not feel sorry for Rolex? Just being curious...
Oh, I know their artists and designers slaved over creating models which would become "classics". (Try to design a classic wristwatch that will look beautiful forever.) But, I can't relate to a real Rolex. I'll never have the funds to own one, and If I did, I'd likely not buy one. But I've worn Seiko copies of a Rolex for the last 25 years. They're probably the most copied watch in the world. But I don't think the copies bite into their sales much.

Also, wristwatches are going the way of pocket watches. People use their cell phones to tell time. Sure there will always be affluent men who wish to wear a beautiful wristwatch, but will it be enough to keep Rolex in business for another 100 years? If they go out of business because of changes in technology, I guess it's not much different than the Baldwin locomotive company or the Yellow Pages.
 

Matt Sarad

Member
Messages
892
I bought my Rolex 30 years ago. It was a reward for having a degree and getting a job. A jewelry store named Slavicks had a no interest sale. 20% down and a hundred dollars a month until paid for. A thousand dollars for a watch? It was less then my HD 28 and Santa Cruz Brazilian Dread in the 80s. I still have the Santa Cruz. It's now worth 15k to replace. The Rolex is about 4.5k. Both great investments.
 

SamBooka

Member
Messages
2,224
You know how to stop these guys? Dont buy from them.
Someone mentioned if they put 1/10 the effort into doing "original" work... I kinda think EVERYONE should put 1/10 the effort into doing "original" work.
So many manufacturers are either blatantly copying designs from the 50s and taking parts from those designs (or even failed ones from the 70s ala Starcaster) and making Mr Potatoheads out of them.
 

John Hurtt

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
18,895
I'd like to hear from some TGP'ers who have ordered from this company.

The Chinese are capable of building a guitar as fine as anyone else in the world. For these prices, I would not expect a world class instrument, but I might expect a decent one.

In this case, they are selling directly to the consumer, so all of the profit is theirs. (A basic Chinese ceiling fan, sold by Home Depot for $19.99, costs $.17 to build in China). For the full $500 price, they could build a VERY good instrument.

As far as copying the shape, logo, name, etc., I'll leave it up to others to be indignant for me. I don't feel sorry for Rolex.
I find the highlighted greatly exaggerated...
 

Oldschool59

Member
Messages
1,803
Oh, I know their artists and designers slaved over creating models which would become "classics". (Try to design a classic wristwatch that will look beautiful forever.) But, I can't relate to a real Rolex. I'll never have the funds to own one, and If I did, I'd likely not buy one. But I've worn Seiko copies of a Rolex for the last 25 years. They're probably the most copied watch in the world. But I don't think the copies bite into their sales much.

Also, wristwatches are going the way of pocket watches. People use their cell phones to tell time. Sure there will always be affluent men who wish to wear a beautiful wristwatch, but will it be enough to keep Rolex in business for another 100 years? If they go out of business because of changes in technology, I guess it's not much different than the Baldwin locomotive company or the Yellow Pages.
Rolex is like any other company. They have created a product that serves a purpose. We should not be fooled in thinking that this purpose is time keeping. As precise as a COSC (Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres) mechanism is, it still leads/lags compared to a cheap quartz watch. I'm a big fan of mechanical watches, but NOT for time keeping. The reason why one buys one varies with the individual.

Having said this, the fact that you personally can't relate to a product does not make it any less reprehensible to forge it. True, there are copies, or designs, inspired by timeless classics (how many variants of a Fender Strat are there?), and it is said that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. But we are not talking imitation here: we are talking selling something that purposefully misleads. A fake. I understand the argument that someone shelling $ 400 for a fake Fender CS would not have had the means to purchase the real thing, so no business lost to Fender, right? No so. Imagine a potential buyer looking at a forgery, and deciding that it is poorly build. That person's perception of the whole brand would be affected. Branding is also about a whole number of other intangibles, such as purchase reinforcement, QC, after-sales support, etc...

IMO, forging is morally and ethically wrong, and should be condemned. This is more or less the opinion of anyone who's created something original, and wishes to uphold the image of what he/she has to offer.

And for what it's worth, I believe luxury watches are going to be booming in the future. Again, not to keep time, but for reasons completely unrelated.

Cheers.
 

R13D

Member
Messages
4,701
On a side note, my son bought his wife a pair of Ray Ban Aviator sun glasses.
Got them for a good price, but not at a point in which one would suspect them to be questionable, and from a seemingly reputable business who claimed only genuine merchandise sold.

Upon taking them to an optical shop for a fitting adjustment, they were determined to be fakes.
All packaging and authenticity tags was there.
It took an expert to point out the differences.

This crap is everywhere.
 

woof*

Member
Messages
7,692
On a side note, my son bought his wife a pair of Ray Ban Aviator sun glasses.
Got them for a good price, but not at a point in which one would suspect them to be questionable, and from a seemingly reputable business who claimed only genuine merchandise sold.

Upon taking them to an optical shop for a fitting adjustment, they were determined to be fakes.
All packaging and authenticity tags were there.
It took an expert to point out the differences.

This crap is everywhere.
Yep
Unless your buying from a genuine dealer of luxury items it's risky. Tons of high end sunglasses on eBay gaurinteed genuine are fakes.
 

StuRdesign

Member
Messages
1,982
When I went with my son to NYC he needed to get a pair of trainers/sneakers. We went into one shop on the edge of Little Italy and their prices were incredibly cheap. Looking at one pair of Nike they seemed really badly made, thread hanging out everywhere & cheap nylon, no leather anywhere. Looked at another pair, the same, then another and another. We eventually realised that the whole store sold fakes and left. So how come the city allows a store like that to stay open?
 




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