Cranked OD in front of overdriven amp

[mj6thbuif]

Are there any OD pedals out there that I can crank the gain on in front of an amp that is already crunching? I am hoping to get two gain channels out of the dirty channel on my Orange TH30: one for mid gain (amp gain at noon) and one for metal (amp gain plus pedal gain). Every pedal I've tried in front of my crunch channel have turned to tone to mush as soon as I start to turn the gain on the pedal.

 

[chrismellotron]

Try a low-gain OD with a broad EQ.

 

[rollyfoster]

Rangemaster.

 

[Irreversal]

What pedals have you tried?

Your amp's pretty much out of headroom if it's turning to mush. No pedal is going to give your more amp headroom. Try turning the gain on the pedal down and the volume up...

 

[mj6thbuif]

Try a low-gain OD with a broad EQ.

Do you think an Xotic BB is low-gain enough?

 

[chrismellotron]

Do you think an Xotic BB is low-gain enough?

I would suggest a DOD-250, Timmy, or a Treble Booster. BB at low-gain might work.

 

[mj6thbuif]

What pedals have you tried?

Your amp's pretty much out of headroom if it's turning to mush. No pedal is going to give your more amp headroom. Try turning the gain on the pedal down and the volume up...

Remember this is my amp's dirty channel, which has minimal clean headroom. For clean headroom, it has the clean channel, which I don't use for crunch. The problem when I turn down the pedal gain is that I don't get enough of a gain increase to go from mid-gain (Malcom Young) to metal (Nuno Bettencourt).

Pedals I've tried includes: EQ, Bad Monkey, Soul Food, Crunch Box, and BB preamp. So as you can see, I have tried boost, low-gain, and mid-gain, and high-gain pedals. The BB is easily the best of the group. While it doesn't turn my overdriven tone to mush/mud per se, it still degrades the clarity of my tone a little when I turn up the gain on it.

 

[mj6thbuif]

I would suggest a DOD-250, Timmy, or a Treble Booster. BB at low-gain might work.

Sorry I meant the Xotic RC. I currently have the BB, which does a better job than all other pedals I've tried. But it still introduces a bit of a loss of clarity. I know the RC is lower gain than the BB, but have yet to try it. I have the Timmy on my list but it doesn't seem as easy to get. As far as the treble booster, my TH30 is already quite bright so I hesitate with this a little bit, though the Catalinbread Naga Viper has caught my eye.

 

[Irreversal]

Remember this is my amp's dirty channel, which has minimal clean headroom. For clean headroom, it has the clean channel, which I don't use for crunch. The problem when I turn down the pedal gain is that I don't get enough of a gain increase to go from mid-gain (Malcom Young) to metal (Nuno Bettencourt).

Pedals I've tried includes: EQ, Bad Monkey, Soul Food, Crunch Box, and BB preamp. So as you can see, I have tried boost, low-gain, and mid-gain, and high-gain pedals. The BB is easily the best of the group. While it doesn't turn my overdriven tone to mush/mud per se, it still degrades the clarity of my tone a little when I turn up the gain on it.

Clean headroom is different from the amp's overall total headroom. If the amp can't handle anymore clipping, everything gets compressed just like a fuzz pedal would.

I'd be spending time with boost pedals and not even worrying about OD pedals. The Rangemaster was a great suggestion, Koko Boost, Rocket Boost, RC Booster (probably not enough output for metal, though), anything that gives you at least a 20dB boost but also some control of the frequency, specifically bass cut.

 

[IndyMead]

Have you considered switching things around to get you mid gain sound from a pedal into the clean channel and then setting the gain channel up for your metal sound? I don't think you're going to be able to create "another channel" from a pedal into an already overdriven pre-amp. You'd be able to get a killer lead sound from a TS style pedal into a cranked amp but I don't think that's what you're looking for. Either way I think you'll be better off going with volume high and gain low on the pedal.

 

[chrismellotron]

Sorry I meant the Xotic RC. I currently have the BB, which does a better job than all other pedals I've tried. But it still introduces a bit of a loss of clarity. I know the RC is lower gain than the BB, but have yet to try it. I have the Timmy on my list but it doesn't seem as easy to get. As far as the treble booster, my TH30 is already quite bright so I hesitate with this a little bit, though the Catalinbread Naga Viper has caught my eye.

I have the Naga Viper, and you can tweak it to sound thick and cutting. Great output. Check that out! I have Plum Crazy Squawk that is kinda mid-heavy but has killer sustain and slightly Muffy and smooth. I love the purple LED. Adds a little noise, but not terrible.

 

[mj6thbuif]

Have you considered switching things around to get you mid gain sound from a pedal into the clean channel and then setting the gain channel up for your metal sound? I don't think you're going to be able to create "another channel" from a pedal into an already overdriven pre-amp. You'd be able to get a killer lead sound from a TS style pedal into a cranked amp but I don't think that's what you're looking for. Either way I think you'll be better off going with volume high and gain low on the pedal.

You make some great points here.
First, yes I have considered getting my mid-gain from my clean and metal from my dirty channel, but am currently loving the gain on my TH30 that I would prefer to get both mid-gain and metal from the dirty channel. After all, I did choose the TH30 because of its crunch tones.
Second, I was afraid it may not be possible to get two channels out of the dirty channel, but I feel like I am getting closer with my BB. So constantly on the search for something a little better.
Third, I did try the TS route with the Bad Monkey, but you're right, a lead sound is not really what I'm after. While adding tightness would be good, I really just want another crunch channel with boosted gain without low-end rolloff, no mid-hump, and no volume boost.

 

[108]

You have a bad amp for use with overdrives to be quite honest.

 

[lavinci]

AnalogMan Sunlion NKT-275 ( White dot) ought to it for you.
two pedals in one
1) Sunfaces love dirty amps
2) Beano Boost (Range Master) loves a Sunface in the front and Dirty amp in the back

The Sunlion will always get:

• an amp to give it ALL up!
• the preamp and power amp tubes WILL BE hot and bothered.

highly recommend this tube molester

 

[rollyfoster]

Or try going back to clean channel with a drive pedal for the metal sound?

On that note...what kind of "metal" sound are you after?

 

[addisonnyle]

Maxon OD808 is brilliant for this!

 

[Irreversal]

You have a bad amp for use with overdrives to be quite honest.

Yup, that was going to be my third suggestion...

 

[mj6thbuif]

You have a bad amp for use with overdrives to be quite honest.

Yea that seems to be the biggest knock against Orange. But that crunch tone though...

 

[Memphistokid]

To the treble booster suggestions....

 

[mj6thbuif]

What makes treble boosters more ideal then standard boosts? Are they specifically designed to go into an already overdriven amp?