Darker Tones, O/D Pedals, Mogami Cable & Speakers...

paulgroove82

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
223
So, I'm at a crossroads - For the longest time I thought that the darker the guitar was, the muddier it would be int he mix, but now, I'm finding that I want to darken my sound (not necessaryily humbucker dark) to tame the high end for more ambient playing...

So, what are you guys using in your chain to get darker tones? I'm unhappy with the my old standby stash and am looking to upgrade my pedals a bit - are there any o/d pedals that are thick and defined without too fizzy of a top end when pushed? Also, how do I go dark without getting overly thick?

I'm using a 52 RI Tele with Duncan Antiquities and a bigsby (I know, Tele, dark???), a Hofner Verythin and Reverend 2 P90 Slignshot, for the most part. I'll also be picking up a Gretsch 6122 before too long. All of this is running through an ever-changing plethora of pedals (George L patches) into a Dr Z Mazerati head and Bogned oversized 2x12 w/ V30s.

I just need some shaping advice with o/d pedals, cabling and maybe even speaker selection...

Thanks!
 

iaresee

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,878
Might be stating the obvious here: but have you tried rolling back the tone knob?
 

Pale Rider

Member
Messages
1,932
I'm not sure how "un-thick" or too fuzzy it maybe, but my Sanford & Sonny Bluebeard is wonderfully dark-(a Muff variant)
i use Teles as well
i'll be interested what others say
 

paulgroove82

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
223
I do roll back the volume knob...and you're right, it'll help.

I don't need so much of a heavy overdrive as I need a dark overdrive...
 

sstweed

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,271
Try a Ge fuzzface clone with the volume rolled back just slightly. A good London Fuzz will give your tone a very warm wooley feel. Dont' let Ge fuzz fool you. Some of the best OD tones on the planet come from fuzzes IMO.
 

paulgroove82

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
223
Mapleneck, have you used the Prescription Electronics Yardbox? Now that you mention that fuzz/overdrive corellation, I remember having some of the creamiest semi-clean tones from that pedal...tried it?
 
M

Member 995

I like to use an EQ pedal after a fuzz/distortion pedal to tame the fizz, especially when I have my amp set to a brighter clean sound. For more dynamic control, I'll use a Moog Low Pass Filter with an expression pedal.

Bryan
 

fr8_trane

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
7,409
Roll down the Guitar tone control
Don't use super low impedance cables
Get a a smoother speaker like a Crex or a Jensen Neo
Avoid really bright OD pedals like the Boss DS-1, Blues Driver etc.
 

paulgroove82

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
223
Not the volume knob, the oft forgotten and maligned tone knob.

You know, all of those knobs do the same thing anyway...

:jo

Anyone use Mogami cables within their board? I'm going to assume that my problem partially lies in the George L's that I bought without really considering the ramifications...
 

sstweed

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,271
Mapleneck, have you used the Prescription Electronics Yardbox? Now that you mention that fuzz/overdrive corellation, I remember having some of the creamiest semi-clean tones from that pedal...tried it?

No haven't tried the Yardbox. Mostly Fuzzface variants for me. My one overriding requirement has always been dynamics. If the pedal doesn't clean up when I back off the guitar volume (or pick softer), I can't use it. That goes for Distortions, OD's, fuzzes, and my amps as well. I don't know whether the Yardbox does this or not, but when I discovered fuzzfaces, it was pretty much game over. Nothing cleans up like a Ge fuzzface. I have had several (still have 3). Loved them all in one way or another. I can cover most of my bases all night long with one good Ge fuzzface.

The one problem some Ge fuzzfaces suffer from is that they don't have a whole lot of gain on top, and when they do it can be a crazy fuzzy sounding tone through many amps. That is why I love the London so much. Prestine cleans when the guitar is way down (7 and below), great warm od when the guitar is turned down a just lilttle bit (7 - 9), and all out fuzz at 10. Way more gain than most of the Ge's I have played, with many sweet spots in between.

If the fuzzface thing is too, well, fuzzy, for you, I have a Blackstone OD that you might want to look into. It has a darker character to it and cleans up great. It isn't a fuzz but a nice warm gritty OD. Not a hi-gain box, but cleans up like nothing else in its class, and goes very well with either a clean or slightly driven amp. Combined with an amp that is working good and hard, it will give you a pretty hard rockin' sound. Sounds nothing like a TS variant. Very warm.

I also have a treble booster that has nothing to do with what you are looking for, but I love it and now you know pretty much all the tones on my board! :)
 

pgissi

Member
Messages
2,478
A Tele in addition to the other guitars you mentioned and V30's, icepick city.

-Rolling back the tone knob on the amp, rolls back gain, not a real solution
-Rolling back tone on the guitar rolls back more than what you want to
dialout
-Rolling back the volume, rolls back more volume than tone
-New Floor pedal will help, but only when its on
-differing cables, marginal tone changes

EQ pedal in pedal chain,yes rolls back the tone but with what additional tone affecting byproducts?

I have a chicken picken buddy who plays a tele through a '76 marshall, not what you would expect, but what makes it happen is the Celestion G75T's
mid and upper mid scooped response he uses in a 2x12 closed back. Tightens and Darkens the tele

Not saying the G75T's may be right for you but a step in the right direction, darker speakers is where the most dramatic results will be found. Weber, maybe even Eminence would be a good place to start.

I have noticed that Eminence has designed their whole line to be darker than Celestion by some measure which prevents players from "dialing out" what they need, gain from the tone stack.

For myself, I do a 100% impedance mismatch using my stock 8ohm Rivera R30 into a Series wired 16 ohm 2x12. Darkened the tone to the point that turning it up to Maim is a pleasureable affair and not that scene from Psycho, slice slice.

Then there is what I call Divorce Speakers, Celestion Blues. By 2 and hire a lawyer since when she sees the statement, she's gonna file.

As an Alternative, Weber Blue Dogs

Bottom line, change OD's, Cables. tone settings etc. and still be searching for the correct path leading from the Crossroads to Toneville

Change the amps voice, the speaker (it may be some trial and error) and really find it this time
 

jerrylee

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
639
Try a Keeley Fuzz Head - very tweak-able. I run a tele (ash/maple) thru it to JMJ30 (top boost) and control everything with the volume/tone. Fuzz is the way...
 

paulgroove82

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
223
A Tele in addition to the other guitars you mentioned and V30's, icepick city.

-Rolling back the tone knob on the amp, rolls back gain, not a real solution
-Rolling back tone on the guitar rolls back more than what you want to
dialout
-Rolling back the volume, rolls back more volume than tone
-New Floor pedal will help, but only when its on
-differing cables, marginal tone changes

EQ pedal in pedal chain,yes rolls back the tone but with what additional tone affecting byproducts?

I have a chicken picken buddy who plays a tele through a '76 marshall, not what you would expect, but what makes it happen is the Celestion G75T's
mid and upper mid scooped response he uses in a 2x12 closed back. Tightens and Darkens the tele

Not saying the G75T's may be right for you but a step in the right direction, darker speakers is where the most dramatic results will be found. Weber, maybe even Eminence would be a good place to start.

I have noticed that Eminence has designed their whole line to be darker than Celestion by some measure which prevents players from "dialing out" what they need, gain from the tone stack.

For myself, I do a 100% impedance mismatch using my stock 8ohm Rivera R30 into a Series wired 16 ohm 2x12. Darkened the tone to the point that turning it up to Maim is a pleasureable affair and not that scene from Psycho, slice slice.

Then there is what I call Divorce Speakers, Celestion Blues. By 2 and hire a lawyer since when she sees the statement, she's gonna file.

As an Alternative, Weber Blue Dogs

Bottom line, change OD's, Cables. tone settings etc. and still be searching for the correct path leading from the Crossroads to Toneville

Change the amps voice, the speaker (it may be some trial and error) and really find it this time


Thanks so much pgissi, that's more or the answer that I was hoping for! It seems like the top end just sizzles all of the time; and granted, the Keeley 808 has a great bump, but it's not that chimey on the top. Do you have any experience with the Red Fangs? I'm trying to avoid the $$ on the Alnico Blues; I used to have a pair of early ceramic Blue Dogs that I loved, but they went with a cab I sold. I've not heard very good things lately, especially here in town, about the latest batch of Weber speakers...

G75Ts sound like a good choice; I'm wondering if it would mate well with the Red Fang...:AOK
 

jim lavender

Member
Messages
1,320
I like the sound of my Jetter Gain Stage Red with my tele as it thickens and darkens the tone. The CRex is a great speaker to mellow the bite as well. I find that I'm can still get the twang when needed but the Jetter allows me to get a smooth blue tone.
Good Luck
 

sstweed

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,271
Celestion Blues aren't always that much more expensive if you are patient. I got one lightly used off ebay for my 5e3 for $150. And they are easily that good IMO. Great low power guitar speaker. It is very true that speakers make a significant difference in an amps voice, at least at the hair splitting level we like to discuss.
 




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