Dealing with amps w/out FX loop

gobseulmuhri

Member
Messages
258
I have a modded AC15CCX with a Weber Ceramic Blue in it that I LOVE. The only problem is that because it doesn't have an FX loop, I can't use the amp's overdrive with delay. And for me, delay is on 90% of the time. For those of you who have amps that don't have FX loops, how do you deal with this? I'd prefer to not spend any money on additional pedals/rigs. I'm contemplating selling it to buy an amp with an FX loop but I really don't want to part with this one or drop the extra cash for something w/ an FX loop i.e. hayseed 15...suggestions??
 

cooljuk

Member
Messages
948
This is totally dependent on your particular giging setup situation(s) but, how about using delay on the control board rather than the amp itself - depending on your setup, you could maybe even use the same delay pedal/device.

You could mod a loop into the amp otherwise.
 

MBreinin

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,824
It really depends on the delay and the amp. Using a "low-fi" analog delay, like a Maxon AD999 or a Carbon Copy, with the level turned down, is usally ok before an amp. I run my AD999 in front of all of my non-loop amps (which is all of my amps, LOL) and I make it work just fine. Also, if you run the amp on the verge of breakup and use a boost to get into higher gain levels, you can use more delay in the signal without strange artifacts. Put the boost in front of the delay.

Mike
 

The Whiz

Member
Messages
6,096
^
Yeah, I tend to run my Hayseed (no fx loop) pretty dirty and my carbon copy sounds great with it.
 

Will Onyx

Member
Messages
647
Yep, I use a carbon copy in front of my amp (no FX loop) as well.

IMO, an analog delay has an easier time running in front rather than a digital delay which tends to sound more processed and cold. YMMV.
 

cooljuk

Member
Messages
948
I've done the CC in front of a Marshall a few times and my problem with it is that when I play clean I get far less delay than when I play dirty (I understand why of course, because of the saturation and loss of dynamics). But that's exactly the opposite of how I like it. I'd prefer more delay on my cleans and a dryer dirty sound, or at least the same amount on both. So I totally empathize with your frustration with a front end only delay situation. I've got loops in my amps though. Much better that way.
 

StratTone

Member
Messages
959
I don't have any problems running analog or digital delays in front of clean amps as long at my delay is at the end of the chain but I feel your pain when it comes to putting a delay infront of a Marshall. I would love to have an effects loop on my '82 JCM 800 2204 but that puppy is staying stock. ;)
 

The Whiz

Member
Messages
6,096
I've done the CC in front of a Marshall a few times and my problem with it is that when I play clean I get far less delay than when I play dirty (I understand why of course, because of the saturation and loss of dynamics). But that's exactly the opposite of how I like it. I'd prefer more delay on my cleans and a dryer dirty sound, or at least the same amount on both. So I totally empathize with your frustration with a front end only delay situation. I've got loops in my amps though. Much better that way.
That's a valid point. With my Hayseed I'm running it just a bit crunchy and I clean it up with my guitar volume. For more gain I rely on a fuzz and a Kingsley Jester which are in front of my carbon copy. So I guess there are limitations.:wave
 

MBreinin

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,824
I think if you have to have a clean delay and a dirt delay up front, you are best served by a pair of pedals, one with the mix set much higher for clean, and one much lower for dirt. I don't have much in terms of pedals going into my amps. Usually one dirt or boost pedal and one delay.

Mike
 

bgoez

Stratocasters are my downfall!
Messages
486
I think if you have to have a clean delay and a dirt delay up front, you are best served by a pair of pedals, one with the mix set much higher for clean, and one much lower for dirt. I don't have much in terms of pedals going into my amps. Usually one dirt or boost pedal and one delay.

Mike
You beat me to it.. 2 delays is the way to go
 

dazco

Member
Messages
15,054
I have a DI out from my amp that is taken from the speaker output, so it is a representation of the entire amp. So i take that into the effects and into a 2nd amp. Effects set to ZERO dry signal. This way the 2nd amp needs only to amplift the repeats on the delay or the wavering signal of a chorus, etc etc. What that means is that the 2nd amp only needs to be about a 1/4 as loud as the main amp, and because the DI is a full representation of the main amp's tone, all you need is a small cheap SS combo. a 15 watt 1-10" will do just fine. You gain the benefit of leaving your main amp's signal untouched and therefore pure. All for the "trouble" of carrying one extra small and light piece of gear. It's IMP the best method in every way. I use it even with amp's that DO have loops. It's far superior. Only thing is, you need effects capable of outputting effects signal only....no dry signal. You CAN have dry signal go into it, but that ruins the benefit of not tainting the dry signal.
 

The Whiz

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Messages
6,096
I have a DI out from my amp that is taken from the speaker output, so it is a representation of the entire amp. So i take that into the effects and into a 2nd amp. Effects set to ZERO dry signal. This way the 2nd amp needs only to amplift the repeats on the delay or the wavering signal of a chorus, etc etc. What that means is that the 2nd amp only needs to be about a 1/4 as loud as the main amp, and because the DI is a full representation of the main amp's tone, all you need is a small cheap SS combo. a 15 watt 1-10" will do just fine. You gain the benefit of leaving your main amp's signal untouched and therefore pure. All for the "trouble" of carrying one extra small and light piece of gear. It's IMP the best method in every way. I use it even with amp's that DO have loops. It's far superior. Only thing is, you need effects capable of outputting effects signal only....no dry signal. You CAN have dry signal go into it, but that ruins the benefit of not tainting the dry signal.
Cool.
:aok
 

famouspogs

Member
Messages
472
this might be sort of kind of but not really off topic from the original post but how did people run echoplexs back in the 60s and 70s without effects loops? I'm asuming it was just straight in? Joe walsh used echoplex's a lot but it never sounded like the echo signal was distorted.
 
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gobseulmuhri

Member
Messages
258
So if your amp is modded, then you must not be concerned with keeping it stock, right? Why not just install an effects loop?
lol that's a good point. it's that I don't want to spend the extra money. I'd rather put it toward a better amp like a used dr.z mas jr or new/used hayseed 15
 

StratTone

Member
Messages
959
You don't seem to have to much problems with those older amps taking pedals up front as long as there in the correct order. Amps that have preamps designed to have distortion is where the problem starts. Most of the older amps had power amps distortion so you really still have a nice clean preamp signal. Thus making out front pedals sound better.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,962
You don't seem to have to much problems with those older amps taking pedals up front as long as there in the correct order. Amps that have preamps designed to have distortion is where the problem starts. Most of the older amps had power amps distortion so you really still have a nice clean preamp signal. Thus making out front pedals sound better.
However, with the increasing popularity of attenuators and power scaling the same issues apply to vintage amps as do 2 channel high gain preamp designs...
 

telewacker

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Messages
2,331
Another alternative is a delay like the Timefactor where you can connect an expression pedal and program it to increase or decrease the amount of delay.
 

jzucker

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,962
Another alternative is a delay like the Timefactor where you can connect an expression pedal and program it to increase or decrease the amount of delay.
That's not the issue. It's not just the level of delay that needs to be adjust. Delay needs to be after overdrive .
 






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