Delay for Leads/Solos

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by guitargypsy, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. guitargypsy

    guitargypsy Member

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    I run all of my pedals in front of my amp because its effect loop is crap. It's a '95 MesaBoogie Tremoverb head and cab. I love the sound of the amp though and use it for my distortion. Of course now whenever I like to use a delay for solos the repeats are just so saturated no matter how I set the mixture. I have a boss dd5, ibanez ddl and line 6 dl4 and they all do it.


    Does anyone know of a delay pedal that I can run in front of the amp that will sound like it's in the effect loop--good with lots of distortion?


    -Chris
     
  2. bluntage

    bluntage Member

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    I, too, recently asked this question and was essentially told "none"! From what I have read/researched, the best candidate for this task is the Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay.
     
  3. dk123123dk

    dk123123dk Member

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    Well the problem is you are delaying the signal then distorting it. So no mater what it will sound like crap. If you can't use the effects loop, the only other option would be to reamp. Or you could put a mic in front of the cab, and get your delay from the mixer (most mixers have a effects on/off foot switch option)

    dk
     
  4. beni

    beni Member

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    +1


    I really like the tone from it.. I've had the Harazai, but the sound is not as good as the DBD.. Really awesome delay if you just wanna do a short delay..
     
  5. Serious Poo

    Serious Poo Armchair Rocket Scientist Graffiti Existentialist Gold Supporting Member

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    Nope. It doesn't matter what delay you put in front of a distorted amp, you will get distorted repeats. That's not necessarily a bad thing if you're after a certain vintage sound (think early RUSH), but it muds things up considerably - especially at higher gain settings.

    Just curious, but does this amp have a parallel/series switch on the effects loop? My Roadking did, but I've never played a Tremoverb. You might try that if it does. There's a huge sound difference between these two settings, and you may find that you find your answer there. Also, does your delay have a drive or output level control? If it does, try messing with that as sending too the wrong signal amount into the power tube section may result in poor sounds. Lastly, I believe Mesa amps have both send & mix levels on their Recto-series FX loops - you might want to experiment with those as well for the same reason.

    Good luck!
     
  6. mfgobbi

    mfgobbi Member

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    If you want power tube distortion, even in the effects loop a delay will sound like crap. Delays should be a PA/mixer thing.
     
  7. guitargypsy

    guitargypsy Member

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    Yeah there is no series/parallel Switch but there is a send and mix level. I've tried messing with it but it just seems that the actual tone of the amp changes when I engage the effects loop. I'll play around again with it tonight and see if I can get a decent sound. I've actually noticed an improvement in tone once I removed my cry baby wah from the signal chain. It is now actually more distorted without the wah in the signal path, even though I use a power supply for it. Weird.

    Thanks for your ideas,

    - Chris
     
  8. guitargypsy

    guitargypsy Member

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    Why does the delay sound better in the loop even though my amp doesn't?
     
  9. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Member

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    Because when the delay is in the loop it is AFTER the distortion created in the preamp section. Delay's only sound "right" if they are after distortion. Which is why many MV type amps have FX loops - so you can put the delay between the distorted preamp and the power amp.
     
  10. rob2001

    rob2001 Member

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    In a perfect world, all time based effects would be after the guitar speakers but it's just not always practical. I do lots of recording and the same applies. It sounds better to my ears to run a rack delay on the mic line input or as a channel insert.

    As far as delays and amp dirt, it's just one of those things you have to reach happy mediums with. I set my amp to a mild dirt and run a few different boosts into a delay and it works out ok. If i'm using lots of amp dirt, the delay goes in the loop, or after the speakers using the live sound board or recording board.
     
  11. Woody777

    Woody777 Member

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    I've got a Tremoverb and I feel your pain. The FX loop just sucks the life out of the amp. However, I'm a delay freak and I could not make it work out front. I use all amp distortion and any delay pedal sounded horrible.

    Here's how I made it work. Dial in a tone you like with the FX loop off. Turn the FX loop on. Balance the volumes using the channel volumes and the master volume. Keep switching back and forth between loop on and loop off until you find the same volume.

    The tone is still much better with the loop off. Set the FX mix to 100%. Now starting at noon, slowly increase the FX send knob - continually comparing the tone with the FX loop on and off - until you dial the "oomph" back into the amp. I found the magic setting right around 1:30.

    Works for me. I leave the loop on all the time and my tone with the loop off is really close to my tone with the loop on. May or may not work with your rig and your tone, but give it a shot.
     
  12. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    Here's my short list of amps that have great FX loops that don't change the sound of the amp...a must for me and my sounds
    All Two- Rocks
    Aiken Sabres
    Suhr Badger
    All CAE amp heads
    All Riveras
    All newer Buddas
    Fargen's...there's many more I don't know about or own...FX loops have come a long way over the past years....Delay's and reverb's have to go in a loop to sound good/correct...Compressors and OD's should be used before the amp
     
  13. Figher53

    Figher53 Member

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    The Badger has a GREAT FX loop... I'll also agree that delays before the amp are usually only for amps being played clean or close to clean...
     
  14. gearboy

    gearboy Member

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    I have a Tech21 D.L.A. in the loop of my Boogie Nomad right now, and that is my 'solo' pedal. Delay and volume boost in one shot. Of course the Boogie's loop is parallel with only a mix knob, so you have to play around with it to hit the right 'spot'. Like was mentioned, around 1:30 seems to be it for this amp as well.
     
  15. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    If you think about what a delay does, it makes sense. It repeats a signal, but "turns down the volume" with each successive repeat.

    Then think about how OD works, with say your guitar volume. You get an incredible OD sound, but turn down the guitar slightly..Od gets weaker, turn down a little more, od gets weaker, cleaner..maybe more bassy on guitar but from a delay probably the opposite...

    It sounds "wrong". I think it makes a sound that distracts our music listening brains even, which tell us something is wrong...with the sound.

    To me, delays into an OD amp sound like bad glass...gritty, to bright, and just plain wrong.

    A SOLUTION: buy yourself a Cube 60 or something like that (inexpensive). Use both outputs on the delay and run the dry signal into your amp, the wet into the Cube60. It weighs nothing, sounds great, plus you have a backup amp right there on stage if you need it.
     
  16. nrvana8775

    nrvana8775 Member

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    I like my delay in front of the amp, most people don't.

    Seems like a good analog pedal with about 1/2 mix would sit under the lead signal pretty well, it would give it some depth and sound a little thicker.
     
  17. guitargypsy

    guitargypsy Member

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    Woody, this is very helpful, thanks, I will give it a shot tonight. Also, I have nuanced some of the settings on the dl4, which has a dynamic delay setting, and this might work if I can't get the effects loop to sound good.

    -Chris
     
  18. Tubevalvemaniac

    Tubevalvemaniac Member

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    Vintage Boss DD-2 still sounds among best delays for guitar, also some analogue (Moog does it for me)
     

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