Delay & Reverb in Effects Loop, please advise!

[sambodious]

So I just got an amp with a good effects loop, I've never used an effects loop before. Amp is a Marshall 2555x.

I currently own a Boss DD-20 and Boss RV-5, and they live on my board, which is only set up to go into the front end of an amplifier. I stuck them in the loop and was quite impressed with the sound!

My question is this, are there any Delay & Reverb pedals that excel in the loop of an amp? I'd really like to not rewire my current pedalboard, but I'd like to do this effects loop thing up right. I know that the DD-20 has a system setting that can be changed from -10db to +4db, supposedly for use in a loop.

Previous great experiences with Boss pedals lead me to look at the DD-3 or DD-7, and maybe another RV series? Do these work well in a loop? Maybe I end up with an RV-2 or RV-3 and like it so much that the RV-5 gets delegated to FX Loop duties and the new pedal goes on my board.

Would an analog delay or a tape echo type unit be nice? I guess darker echoes work nicely behind an overdriven lead sound so they stay out of the way? I know lots of legendary players used Echoplex units, but mostly in front of the amp, right?

Please advise for small, affordable, simple effects boxes that work well in a loop!

 

[Ugly Bunny]

IMO, all time-based effects only work well in the loop. A scant few even work at all before the amp; and those that do are pure preference (flanger, phaser, chorus).

But if you play high-gain, ALL time-based stuff should be in the loop. For clean, it doesn't matter that much.

EDIT: You don't even have to re-arrange your pedal board. Just hook up your FX loop like this:
FX Send > Delay > Reverb > FX return

You don't even need to buy any other pedals. Might need a couple more long cables though

 

[beexter]

I've had good success with a Zoom MS70CDR.

 

[Cosmo-D]

IMO, all time-based effects only work well in the loop. A scant few even work at all before the amp; and those that do are pure preference (flanger, phaser, chorus).

But if you play high-gain, ALL time-based stuff should be in the loop. For clean, it doesn't matter that much.

EDIT: You don't even have to re-arrange your pedal board. Just hook up your FX loop like this:
FX Send > Delay > Reverb > FX return

You don't even need to buy any other pedals. Might need a couple more long cables though

This. I've had a harder time finding time based effects that work in front of an amp. They always sound better in the loop IME.

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I've had good success with a Zoom MS70CDR.

I LOVE the MS-70CDR. You could use that as your only loop pedal and be perfectly happy. The HD hall is fantastic, as is the Shimmer. The carbon copy and analog w/ mod are excellent. What an amazing value. They're not quite Strymon/Eventide caliber, but for a live performance, the pedal sounds just as good. Plus, you can combine up to 6 effects, it's got tap-tempo, a tuner, EQs, etc. Great pedal for the money... Great pedal period. I use mine all the time - and i have Strymon gear and an Eventide H9 Max.

 

[sambodious]

Thanks guys this helps a whole lot! I suppose all pedals are equipped to handle signal either right off the guitar or in a loop? That was mostly what I was worried about, was putting a pedal in my loop and somehow losing volume or boosting volume unintentionally between pre and power sections.

 

[shinksma]

Thanks guys this helps a whole lot! I suppose all pedals are equipped to handle signal either right off the guitar or in a loop? That was mostly what I was worried about, was putting a pedal in my loop and somehow losing volume or boosting volume unintentionally between pre and power sections.

No, not all pedals are designed to handle both the guitar-straight-in level and the amp-effect-loop level. Some pedals get quite grumpy in the amp-effects-loop, and just how grumpy depends a lot on the amp, because the adjustment to signal level is not a universal value.

My Catalinbread Echorec likes to be in front of my PRS Archon - in the loop I get a lot of clock noise. I don't really know why, but I have heard that this particular amp (the Archon), due to how it lowers signal out in the effects loop, then boosts it again on the return, amplifies any noise in the signal, and some effects create more noise than others. Strymon effects are apparently noiseless, and my Boss DD-2 and RT-20 are also relatively noise free, whereas my CE-3 adds a touch of hiss.

Amps will do the effects loop signal level magic thing differently, so YMMV across amps.

 

[CEFlint]

IMO, all time-based effects only work well in the loop. A scant few even work at all before the amp; and those that do are pure preference (flanger, phaser, chorus).

^This with one exception for me. I prefer phaser/flanger in front of the amp, usually after wah and before dirt.
Reverb, Delay, Chorus, Rotary, and Tremolo all work best in the loop ... in that order.... IMHO.

 

[superdave2001]

^This with one exception for me. I prefer phaser/flanger in front of the amp, usually after wah and before dirt.
Reverb, Delay, Chorus, Rotary, and Tremolo all work best in the loop ... in that order.... IMHO.

Explain the order preference (please)?

 

[CEFlint]

Explain the order preference (please)?

First, as we all know, what works for one might not for another. Over the years, I've settled on this chain because:

I use a mild amount of reverb from a HOF. Rarely turn it off. I find that with it after delay, chorus/rotary & trem, it decreases the effectiveness of the other effects by "holding over" the effect. For example one delay bleeds into the next because of the reverb's decay. Doesn't happen with the reverb first. I prefer delaying the reverb over reverbing the delay.

Same is true for delay after the others. Let's say you're using delay and trem together. With delay 2nd, I find the tremolo effect less pronounced because the delay is sometimes repeating the "high" point of the wave when the "low" point needs to be pronounced. So, reverb and delay after the others can "level out" or reduce the overall effect.

It can actually do the same for phaser in front of the amp, but I use a Phase 90 with the R28 mod and it seems to work fine before dirt/amp. Go figure.

"Chorus, Rotary" probably should have read "Chorus or Rotary" as I don't typically use both on the board at the same time.
Using the chorus before the trem, I can get a nice rotary effect when combining the two. Less so when reversed.
The rotary I use has a nice cabinet simulator, so I want it near the end of the chain, where a cabinet should be.
Having the trem at the very end makes the trem effect more pronounced. I don't use the rotary and trem at the same time, so actually that order might not matter.

That's pretty much it. Of course, as my wife will attest, I'm constantly re-ordering my board looking for that one little perfect tweak.
But this is the order I have found that works best for me.
YMMV

 

[superdave2001]

Awesome, well thought out and makes sense. Nice to see some logic behind a "different" opinion on order (not the "typical": MOD -> DLY -> VERB order). Thanks!