Deleted Threads

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Brian Scherzer, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. Brian Scherzer

    Brian Scherzer Staff Member

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    So that folks are aware, I deleted a locked thread that had degenerated into people going after each other. After communicating with the other admins, I felt that we needed a new policy about locked threads. If something is happening that makes locking a thread necessary, there is no reason to leave it up for people to gawk at. In other words, if it's bad enough to lock, it's bad enough to remove it from public view! I realize that some members won't like the policy, but it makes sense to me to do things this way. For whatever reason, the Pedals topic area has seen way too much hositlity lately. We HAVE to do something about that if the website is to remain even remotely close to the original vision of being a safe place to discuss gear.
     
  2. rewog

    rewog Member

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    Brian
    I think what people are often confused about is the reason behind the deletion.
    If the thread just disappears, no-one will ever know why it is gone, or what is considered acceptable.
    An example is the COT thread that started all this about a week ago. I saw the thread not long before it disappeared, and I didn't see anything there which contravened the rules. In particular, I didn't see any personal attack, etc. The only thing I saw which I thought may have caused the deletion was a link to a cached Google page.
    Was this the case, or was the thread deleted for some other reason ?
    We need to know.

    You guys do a great job, and we all appreciate the resource, but sometimes we can work better with you if we are kept informed.
     
  3. Brian Scherzer

    Brian Scherzer Staff Member

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    I rarely come onto this topic area (bass player....enough said!) so I have no idea what happened last week. I was made aware of some of the back and forth flaming that happened over the past couple of days, so became involved at that time. Since I shut down the PRS Forum, I have not been very active in the day-to-day things that happen on TGP. Based on recent events, I felt a need to become more involved, but on a very limited basis. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the thread you mentioned, so can't help with why it was deleted. If I move a thread from public view, I will always post that I did it so that folks know why (it will always be because of flaming). I'm hoping that the other admins and mods do the same thing. It's probably easier for me to get involved on this topic area because I don't use pedals and don't even know who the folks are who make them. For that reason, I have no agendas other than to make sure that TGP remains a peaceful place to log onto. It's the only good thing about being retired from playing music.......other than not having to practice, play in smokey bars, or get asked to play "Freebird"! :AOK
     
  4. mcflymcflymcfly

    mcflymcflymcfly Member

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    you should lock the thread but leave it up

    its nice to read the arguments of other gear sluts:p
     
  5. slowburn

    slowburn Supporting Member

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    whoever deleted the cot thread I am pissed at. there was a lot of good discussion going back and forth about the cot that I wanted to reference. at the most, the offending posts should have been deleted and the thread should have been locked, but the initial couple of pages with actual discussion of the cot50 blue should have been left up.
     
  6. big mike

    big mike Administrator Staff Member

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    I feel compelled to remind people at this point, that Brian is the man on this board. Scott, Alec, and he have done a LOT to keep this place running. Time, money, stress, and sleepless nights I'm sure. Us mods do all possible to try to reduce the load, but it's not always enough.

    Try to remember people, it's like we're all in their livingroom shooting the breeze. They set the rules, and we are all invited guests. Disagree with how/why a new rule is put into place, I understand. But that's the breaks. It's not our place to dictate terms. Follow the rules, and nothing gets deleted.


    Seems almost TOO simple....:NUTS
     
  7. MarkWorth

    MarkWorth Member

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    +1

    Agreed! a much better way to handle this would be to delete the posts when they got bad, and then lock the thread so to leave all of the valuable information intact.

    -j
     
  8. slowburn

    slowburn Supporting Member

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    I don't care if the pope himself deleted the thread. my opinion that it was a bad call to delete the whole thread is just as valid as brian's opinion that the whole thread needed to be deleted.
     
  9. TaronKeim

    TaronKeim Member

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    Man... the whole world could do with less drama, gossip, dirt digging and infantile behavoir in their entertainment... If that is the new policy here at the gear page (to get rid of locked threads) I'm all for it.

    Go practice guitar or get a more interesting hobby if seeing people slam each other and electronic scandal is the highlight of your day.

    -TJK
     
  10. big mike

    big mike Administrator Staff Member

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    Sure it is valid. You just don't make the rules. End of story.

    Actually...it's a good idea the Pope's not a Mod. The whole religious issue could get a bit sticky.
     
  11. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    Ever tried using search? I found Cot50 Blue threads on page 5 and page 8 of this very section just now - 11pm EST 1/23/06.

    Please note folks - this board can move pretty fast with all the active posters we have.

    This whole "cloak and dagger" with mysteriously disappearing threads is a tempest in a teapot. Please note the original thread starter can at any time delete the first post in any thread and the entire thread will be deleted. Just the way it goes.

    The internet and discussion forums is a moving, shifting and changing beast by its very nature.

    There isn't some deep conspiracy to keep threads from public. We are simply trying to be proactive and to make folks understand that we are serious about holding folks accountable for their words and actions on the page.

    Like Alec's most excellent signature says, "This isn't real life." It's just a discussion forum. Some folks in the past few weeks seem to have forgotten that.
     
  12. Brian Scherzer

    Brian Scherzer Staff Member

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    One problem with many threads that are moved from public view (admins and mods can still access them) is that people have a tendency to quote from other posts. If there is too much of that in a thread, trying to save some of the posts leads to people scratching their heads because things are out of context. A person may have made a reply to a post that ended up being deleted, and that post may seem to have come out of left field. When possible, we'll save things.
     
  13. rewog

    rewog Member

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    I searched for the link after it disappeared Scott... and it was definitely gone.
    It's back now, but the link to the cached page about COT led's has been removed ??
     
  14. MAGICboy

    MAGICboy Gold Supporting Member

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    I deleted the link from my website due to a private legal matter..

    If you have any questions feel free to email me at

    seanmichael252@aol.com
     
  15. ToneRanger

    ToneRanger Member

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    I think transparent decision making is fundamental in any system that wants to remain democratic and trustworthy. Decisions that are not grounded or not grounded well enough always raise suspicion, even if they are exactly correct. This applies to everything in real world and also in digital world.
     
  16. Don Rusk

    Don Rusk Biggus Bearfootus Vendor

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    Ditto.

    Deleting an entire thread is just lazy moderation.... and people feel cheated of the time they invested in participating - if you dont have the time to only moderate the bad stuff then please find someone who will ---- nuking a whole neighborhood to remove a crack house is uncalled for.:AOK
     
  17. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    Wow.

    Here's the scoop folks. There are no lazy moderators here. Nothing is deleted or moved lightly. The rumours being spread here and elsewhere of disappearing threads and deletions are far beyond the reality of what is/has gone here from the beginning.

    If the original thread poster deletes the first post in any thread, the entire thread is deleted. We can't do anything about that. It is their right for starting the thread.

    If the moderators/administrators here "remove" a thread, it is not deleted. It is moved off the public boards. When this happens, we note why and will most times email the thread starter the reason why. Due to the increasing frequency of the number of posts, sometimes that hasn't been the case 100% of the time. We are working towards making that the norm; but it'd be a best case scenario if we never had to do so.

    We do not remove threads unless the code of conduct is not being followed. 99.9% of the time that is due to folks personally attacking each other. We have had manufacturers and retailers threaten legal action on some threads; those are pulled too. Sorry, but this is a non-profit non-affliated discussion forum. We don't have a legal team.

    We don't pull threads simply because of whim, or as favors, or because we don't agree with the topic being discussed. That accusation I have seen on other boards, and it is implied here by some members that are far more outspoken on other boards.

    I'll repeat something that needs repeating: This is *just* a discussion board. No money is made here. Donations from members fund this place 100%. For the record, I donate my money too. Everyone that administrates and moderates this board does so for free. Not one cent ever donated has ever gone to anything but the costs to keep this place up and running.

    All this implied cloak and dagger stuff, criticisim of "lazy moderators" and "burnt out" moderators is a smoke screen, a tempest in a teapot. Personally, I think it is silly; but I realize that some folks take all this dead serious; to them I say what Alec Lee puts in his signature - "It's not real life, it's just an internet discussion board."

    :D
     
  18. Don Rusk

    Don Rusk Biggus Bearfootus Vendor

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    "It's not real life, it's
    just an internet discussion board."

    Ive seen this quoted a few times........ maybe this attitude is part of the issue.

    Obviously its more than 'just a board' to the people here.

    And more than just a board to the people threatening you with legal action etc.....

    I think its an excellent one myself - thats why I moved here:)


    But I think its easy to forget why most people come here, thats all I was trying to bring up.
     
  19. Gumby

    Gumby Member

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    What about the freedom to say whatever you want. I’d rather have a defined set of rules dictating the administrators’ boundaries and a violation of these rules should result in a warning, then if the problems persist, a total ban. By no means should the offending post be removed, or the thread. Obscenities should be blacked out but the post should remain. Censorship sucks. The fight against censorship, in one form or another, was present at the birth of music. The world does not exist in a state where all things and people are pleasingly admired- why should TGP.

    I have no claims or accusations against the moderators. I will not compare them to an unjust self-serving congress; with product pushers acting as lobbyist. That would be silly. I do think that it would serve a greater good to proceed with the methods described in the previous paragraph. I want to hear what people have to say. It’s ultimately not up to the moderators to decide whether the content is suitable. Moderate only those things required to keep the site from having an age restriction (though I wouldn’t mind a more mature group of participators.)

    In summery: Do not moderate the content of the post, minus blatant obscenities. Never remove the offending post or thread, and just black out vulgarities. Let us have our free speech, and the forum will seem like less of a market place and more like a forum. Remember that we are a group of users capable of using the backspace button if we find ourselves offended or put off-- Leave that choice to us.
     
  20. gkelm

    gkelm Supporting Member

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    I for one am going to have emotional stability problems if one more post gets deleted. I was already feeling listless, and then...no more COT thread...spiralling downward. There is a void in my life now in which churns a sea of hopeless depseration. I'm on the edge, and this reckless post destruction just may push me over... :BITCH

    On the opther hand, keep up the appreciated efforts, mods! :D

    Greg
     

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