Detuned Cab Experiment

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by 908SSP, Apr 18, 2005.

  1. 908SSP

    908SSP Supporting Member

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    Well I did a detuned cab experiment yesterday. I put two green backs in the top of a 4x12 and left the bottom two speakers out. Closed it up and set up an A/B experiment. I have an A/B switch I made for speaker testing and used another 4x12 with 4 greenbacks as a control. I used my Trainwreck clone as the test amp as it didn't have an assigned cab so if this worked it might be assigned to the wreck.

    Anyway the results were pretty amazing. My Trainwreck sounded like there was nitroglycerin running through it's veins. The cab had a deeper bass and a higher high with a scooped middle that the control cab just didn't have with the Trainwreck. EVH would love the sound the harmonics jumped and lead sound was ripping. During testing I adjusted the tone controls for the best sound and ended up with all the controls at 1 o'clock. This indicates to me that the cab is working really well with what the amp designer had in mind. The amp is 50watts and the two greenback cab is 50watts.

    Let me say as well I am not looking for one definitive tone like some players but for a variety of good tones to use as I see fit. My JMP which I normally play through the greenback 4x12 sounds great with that cab just the way it is but the Trainwreck wasn't really happening with it like it does now with the detuned cab. I think it is worth a try to see if it is a tone you can use. It really works great for that over the top high gain ripping solo type sound.
     
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  2. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    Extremely interesting Alex. Might have to try that!
     
  3. 908SSP

    908SSP Supporting Member

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    I want to add I was not predisposed to liking a detuned cab. I have 6 speakers in boxes and a couple extra cabs that I will have to sell sooner or later so putting in two more wouldn't bother me at all. As a mater of fact if anything I have been a proponent of more speakers rather then less after all I have a total of four 4x12 cabs. Why it works so well I can't explain. I even think there was a noticeable echo effect coming from the empty speaker holes like I was running a reverb of delay which I wasn't and since the Trainwreck doesn't have either it doesn't hurt at all to have it. I may try this with a 2x12 as well taking one speaker out and putting on a closed back but thats is a bit more work as I don't have any closed back 2x12 cabs.
     
  4. heybulldog

    heybulldog Member

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    please explained "detuned" is it mearly removing one or more speakers from a cab? are the results similar to running an open back cab? -im confused
     
  5. 908SSP

    908SSP Supporting Member

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    Madhouse

    Above is one supplier they follow some writings on the subject. I think they look like closed back cabs with one or more speakers missing.
    They sound different more going on then just less speakers and not the same as an open back either. Some people are buying the Madhouse cabs so there are those that like the sound. I think you can get a really good idea whether it is something you might like by experimenting with a standard closed back cab. I also have seen other guitarists playing Marshall 4x12 bottoms with only the top speakers installed. Mater of fact the demo clips for the Suhr CAA100 use one thats what got me interested in trying it.
     
  6. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    Here's a detuned cab I made following London Power specs.

    [​IMG]

    The theory is that the size of the port is conducive to gtr-centric freqencies. It's purpose is for consistency not available with an open back because the frequency response changes depending upon the relation of the open-back cab to a room.

    It's also is quite loud. Kevin Power's says a 2x12 de-tuned has the same spl as a 4x12 closed back.

    908SSP did you find the volume to be the same when you did the A/B?
     
  7. SeanF

    SeanF Member

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    I've heard several players comment about that configuration adding natural reverb. I don't know if the cab's functioning as an echo chamber for high frequencies or what, but apparently it's one of the fringe benefits of that design. glad it worked for you, and thanks for the report. I wish more people would/could perform A/B tests like that, it's really the only way to compare apples to apples.
     
  8. Nightfly27

    Nightfly27 Member

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    Been running my Fuchs this way for a coupla years now: through a 2x12 Jenkins cab with only one SRO. I love it, punch and air all at the same time. 'Cept when its in my back seat, it makes my car drive around in circles....

    NF
     
  9. 908SSP

    908SSP Supporting Member

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    Yes I did the notice that volume didn't change. But if I am not mistaken it shouldn't because the same power going to two speakers is in theory just as loud as four speakers. With two each speaker takes 1/2 the power with four each speaker takes 1/4 of the power.

    The reverb effect or delay effect was noticeable and not expected on my part.
     
  10. heybulldog

    heybulldog Member

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    wqw, now i know , thanx fellas
     
  11. Phloored

    Phloored Member

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    [​IMG]


    That looks exactly like my cab (thanks Sean). Mine has a tolex covering and basketweave grill and is baltic ply though. Not sure what the baffle is on mine. For me, these cabs are the best BIG sound I have ever heard. I can't imagine needing a 2x12 setup as a 1x12 is just monstrous. I settled on a tonker in mine and really like it after 15 - 20 hours it smoothed out nicely.
     
  12. r9player

    r9player Silver Supporting Member

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    Hey Sean,

    I actually did do an A/B test with my 1x10 Detuned cab (that you made with the enclosure of my Auble amp so it is all branded Auble) and a Bogner 1x12 cube with a Celestion V30 in it.

    It really was a no contest

    Detuned was louder, had more fullness to its tone, more bass, more highs. I think every possible aspect of tone I could think off the Detuned simply outclassed the Bogner.

    Now for the fun part, I am getting in a Burt V 2x10 that I got off Ebay. Now that will be an interesting A/B test!
    Keep you posted.
     
  13. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    LMAO. :D
     
  14. Shemp

    Shemp Member

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    Dude I've seen you drive. Don't be blaming the cab!
     
  15. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    Thanks for the compliment. I guarantee that Sean's cabinets are superior. For one thing, mine can only take so much volume before some unpleasant sounds come out.

    Luckily, I don't ever need to get that loud.

    I love the airy sound the de-tuned cabs get, I'm not sure how well they'd work for a heavy metal band though.

    I have another 2x12 that I made with antique pine I'll post if I can get my stupid FTP to work.
     
  16. aeolian

    aeolian Member

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    A speaker cabinet is a reactive load on a speaker (which is already a reactive load on the amplifier). For the incredibly low compliance of most MI speakers, as compared to hi-fi speakers, very large internal cabinet volumes are required. If you look at old hi-fi gear from the days before rubber or foam surrounds you'll see really big boxes for the speakers contained within. Because of the attempt at portability, most guitar amplifier speakers are housed in as small an encousure as possible. Since extreme bass is not required, and in the old days of archtops not even wanted due to feedback, small cabinets, or packing a cabinet with drivers in order to get more sound level, was practical. But look at the volume of an Eden 2-10 bass cabinet relative to the surface area of the speakers, and compare it to the same relationship on a Vibroluxe Reverb.
    A port is just another load. The volume of air contained within, has some resistance against moving in and out and thus changes the compliance of the air mass within the cabinet. The combination of the large volume for a lower resonant frequency, and large low resistance opening for a lower reactance means that you have a cabinet tuned pretty much around the fundametal frequencies of the lower middle of the guitar. In other words, it sounds bigger and more solid. There's nothing magical about the opening matching the "missing" speaker. Any opening in either baffle of the basic surface area would achieve the same result in the same size cabinet.
     
  17. Phloored

    Phloored Member

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    It's funny you mentioned that about metal. I have used a high gain amp with it and this thing sounds amazing with whatever I throw at it. At high volume it is as if the sound is non source specific, kinda like swimming in it. It's very addictive. It would take some very good micing to captue the effect ( if at all possible).
     
  18. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    I think that's how Kevin stumbled upon the concept in the first place. Note that his dimensions call for 16" deep.

    I think that has a lot to do with some of the airy characteristics as well. I've got an old 4x12 Acoustic 150 cab and I noticed that it is 15 3/8" deep. That's about 2-3" deeper than any other cab I have. It seems to have some of the same qualities as my de-tuned.
     
  19. lhallam

    lhallam Member

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    Here's my antique pine, same cab but with two different baffles:

    [​IMG]

    Note the grain and color compared to the modern yellow pine

    I posted earlier:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Phloored

    Phloored Member

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    Thats some cool lookin baffle! Whatever it is, it works, and what is best for me is that it works with the volume low as all get out as well as at full clip. The lower volume moody feel is what caught my ear at first. When tou cast some texture into a low volume full sound that breathes, well it's just is so nice.

    I really like that asymetrical baffle, that antique pine has some cool curves, nice!
     

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