Diamond and Empress trem owners: How hard is it to sync your trem to a click?

dwolfggc

Member
Messages
434
My band plays to a click track (so we can run loops and things) I have an m13 that is supposed to be able to do midi clock sync, however its pretty inaccurate and unusable for mod effects like tremolo. I've tried tapping the tempo in and for the delay it works fine, but for trem (because it doesn't restart every time you play) if your the tiniest bit off it eventually gets out of tempo. I really want to do rhythmic tremolos.
So for those of you that have a tremolo with a tap tempo (specifically the diamond and the empress) is this problem inherent in all tap tremolo pedals or is this a flaw in the m13?
Have you ever tried to sync your tremolo up to an outside rhythm?
If so how did work?

Thanks
 

Meriphew

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,166
I have a Diamond Memory Lane and use the tap feature all the time. It works perfectly. I'd assume the tap on the Diamond Tremolo would work just as well.
 

wondermoose

Member
Messages
245
The Empress was spotty for me tempo wise. I never could quite get it to sync with our click track. I ended up using the tempo switch just to get roughly close and kept the depth on the lower side so that it just thickens up without the tempo being distracting. I just got a Modfactor and should be able to test out the trem setting with a click this weekend.

I have a Diamond Memory Lane and use the tap feature all the time. It works perfectly. I'd assume the tap on the Diamond Tremolo would work just as well.
Were you using it with a click track, or just in a traditional band setting? Tremolos and delays are different beasts when it comes to tap tempo. As the OP noted most (all?) tremolos don't reset with a pick attack. The rhythm is continuous, i.e. some pick strokes aren't heard because they are played during the volume scoop. That makes small tempo differences more apparent as the song progresses for a tremolo.
 
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rhoydotp

Member
Messages
1,844
Have you ever tried to sync your tremolo up to an outside rhythm?

i don't think this is possible at all with the Empress ... i would say just keep checking the tempo and re-tap every once in a while for live. if tempo is too fast, use the subdivision knob (ratio)

for studio use, i don't know what to tell you.
 

Meriphew

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
9,166
I've done studio sessions using an amp's tremolo (MM 65 Reverb) manually synced to a click track, and that's very difficult to do (I wouldn't even bother to try it live). I ended up making multiple passes on multiple tracks that ended up being edited together.

I've used the tremolo (tap tempo'd) on my Roger Linn Adrennalin pedal synced to a click track without any problems.

BTW, I'm going to be buying a Diamond Tremolo in the not too distant future. It sounds great IMO.
 

dwolfggc

Member
Messages
434
its sounds like i'd have the same problem no matter what i was using. The frustrating thing about all this is that the M13 is supposed to be able to sync to a midi clock, it just doesn't work correctly.

Maybe i should sell it and get an Adrenalinn III.

Edit: on second thought maybe not, the adrenalinn looks like kind of a one trick pony.
 
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awallace

Member
Messages
1,448
One thing to note about the tap on the Diamond Tremolo is that not only does it set the speed to match the tempo of your song, it also synchronizes the waveform each time you tap it so that the pulses land on the beat. Being in time and in sync are two different things and we wanted to make sure we were doing both.

However, any small user error in tapping in the tempo will compound over time so it's a good idea to occasionally re-tap to keep it in time and in sync.
 

nrvana8775

Member
Messages
2,138
I bought the goatkeeper for this exact reason.

I haven't played with the adrenalinn, but I definitely have my eye on it.

At this point, I can midi/click sync my murf and goatkeeper. Working on a way to get my memory lane synced, hopefully I will be getting the new timeline (whenever that happens).
 

jero

Member
Messages
619
i would say just keep checking the tempo and re-tap every once in a while for live. .

exactly how i use the tap tempo on my Empress. Has nothing do to with Empress, but it is simply impossible to tap that accurate to stay in line with a click track imho.
 

dancehall

Member
Messages
2,296
its sounds like i'd have the same problem no matter what i was using. The frustrating thing about all this is that the M13 is supposed to be able to sync to a midi clock, it just doesn't work correctly.
have you posted about this in the digital and modeling gear forum? The guy from Line 6 (Rich?) responds to posts there, maybe you are overlooking something.
 

sleepyone

Member
Messages
498
The M13/M9 can actually restart the tremolo sequence by tapping just once on the tap tempo footswitch
make sure u have the latest firmware update
 

whoismarykelly

Oh look! This is a thing I can change!
Messages
8,141
How tight are you personally to the click while playing? That might be part of it. If you aren't exactly on or someone else isn't exactly on then it can get a little hairy.

I would continue to retap while you are playing every few measures so you stay in time with the trem and dont get off as the difference compounds over a long time.
 

dwolfggc

Member
Messages
434
The M13/M9 can actually restart the tremolo sequence by tapping just once on the tap tempo footswitch
make sure u have the latest firmware update

Yeah, i tried doing that, (i have the 2.01 firmware) but it still drifts back out to quickly to be helpful (like within a measure or two)

I think my playing rhythm is good, with tremolo i'm usually just hitting chords and letting them ring anyway, but obviously my tapping is not perfect. I think thats the problem, with an effect like tremolo minor variations in tempo get magnified over the course of a couple measures until they are glaring.

I will post in the digital/modeling forum and see if i'm missing something about the midi sync.

nrvana8775: I didn't realize the goatkeeper had that "sync in" jack thats very cool! Does it work well? We're using Ableton Live as a click generator, its a pretty standard "beeb" metronome sound. From reading their website it sounds like it would work.

Seriously, thanks for all the help guys. You've saved me from a long expensive journey that would have gotten me nowhere in the end :bonk
 

nrvana8775

Member
Messages
2,138
Yeah, i tried doing that, (i have the 2.01 firmware) but it still drifts back out to quickly to be helpful (like within a measure or two)

I think my playing rhythm is good, with tremolo i'm usually just hitting chords and letting them ring anyway, but obviously my tapping is not perfect. I think thats the problem, with an effect like tremolo minor variations in tempo get magnified over the course of a couple measures until they are glaring.

I will post in the digital/modeling forum and see if i'm missing something about the midi sync.

nrvana8775: I didn't realize the goatkeeper had that "sync in" jack thats very cool! Does it work well? We're using Ableton Live as a click generator, its a pretty standard "beeb" metronome sound. From reading their website it sounds like it would work.

Seriously, thanks for all the help guys. You've saved me from a long expensive journey that would have gotten me nowhere in the end :bonk

The sync in from the goatkeeper works as it should. I have the murf, goatkeeper, and my echoplex looper synced to a drum machine. I am talking to a guy who thinks he can come up with a box that will allow me to sync up my memory lane (cv out -> momentary latch input). If the new timeline has midi in, I should be able to sync all of my time-based effects.
 

awallace

Member
Messages
1,448
Working on a way to get my memory lane synced, hopefully I will be getting the new timeline (whenever that happens).

Hi nrvana8775, just an FYI- you may want to check out this device for using MIDI to control the delay time of the Memory Lane:

http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/pt_footsim.htm

Note that you would need to have the Memory Lane modded with an external tap tempo jack but that's a real straightforward operation.
 
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coolhandluc

Member
Messages
433
Were you using it with a click track, or just in a traditional band setting? Tremolos and delays are different beasts when it comes to tap tempo. As the OP noted most (all?) tremolos don't reset with a pick attack. The rhythm is continuous, i.e. some pick strokes aren't heard because they are played during the volume scoop. That makes small tempo differences more apparent as the song progresses for a tremolo.

Is there a tremolo that restarts with a pick attack? The empress does not and I'm now needing it to.
 

johnnyelgato

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
335
Late to the post but yeah inexperienced the same prob - it's the volres setting it makes it slow and speed up. If you use the panner right before the Roatary horn option you should be able to sync that. It doesn't have that volres parameter so it won't slow down or speed up. Otherwise for the opto/bias trem I set the volres at half (all the way off and all the way up doesn't seem to play nice with pic attacks), and pull the mix and depth a little below max and it seems to behave like a boss tr-2 or something that doesn't speed up and slow down as you hold the chord
 




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