Diminished Scale over Blues

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by rotren, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. rotren

    rotren Member

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  2. coolhand78

    coolhand78 Supporting Member

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  3. Banditt

    Banditt Supporting Member

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    I have found the easiest way for me to get this sound in my head was to stop thinking of scales, and think of passsing chords.

    I7 I7b5 IV

    I7 I13b9 IV
     
  4. ZeyerGTR

    ZeyerGTR Supporting Member

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    Good thing this isn't posted in the Sound Hound. Some folks' brains might explode if they realize blues isn't just locked to the minor pent... of course, those same folks don't seem to actually listen to much blues.

    I like that, thanks!
     
  5. rotren

    rotren Member

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    Thanks, yeah this is definitely a modern approach. The old blues guys didn't go into this territory, but guys like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, etc often employ some diminished ideas.
     
  6. newb3fan

    newb3fan Member

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    That's a nice lesson thanks for sharing. I've been trying to incorporate some easier approaches to getting diminished and altered sounding runs to go to the IV chord for the past many months. These ideas hit a lot more color notes (b9, #9, 13, etc.) and the imply a tri-tone substitution chord to go to the IV (in your video example a Bb7 or 9 sliding a half-step down to A7.
     
  7. rotren

    rotren Member

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    Thanks NewB3Fan.
     
  8. bigEbeer

    bigEbeer Member

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    really enjoyed the video, great ideas! Do you offer any sheet music (or tab) for the licks you were playing. I have trouble following fingers on videos but if there's something I can look at it helps me immensely.
     
  9. rotren

    rotren Member

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    Code:
    E |--15b---------12-------15.---12---------------------|
    B |-----------------14.--------------------------------|
    G |-----------------------------------------------9s---|
    D |----------------------------------------------------|
    A |----------------------------------------------------|
    E |----------------------------------------------------|
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    --8--------8s-9--------9s-11-------11s12-------12h--|
    --------9-----------10----------12----------13------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    
    
    -----------------------------12-15----12------------|
    --14-------------------12h14----------------14h12---|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    ----------------------------------------------------|
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------||
    --15-14h12----12------------------------------------||
    -----------15----15s14h12-14h12-------12------------||
    --------------------------------14------------------||
    ----------------------------------------------------||
    ----------------------------------------------------||
    
    
     
  10. bigEbeer

    bigEbeer Member

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    Thank you very much Robert. I will be definitely joining your website once summer hits and I can dedicate lots of time to practice.
     
  11. Baminated

    Baminated Member

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    Dynamite lesson. Great intro to this sound.
     
  12. gennation

    gennation Member

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    Nice stuff as usual.
     
  13. dead of night

    dead of night Member

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    So, an A half/whole diminished scale will give you the following chords:
    Bb7, C7, C#7, Eb7, F7, G7, G#7.

    You could arpeggiate any of these chords on the way to D7 and be using the diminished scale.

    Is this correct?
     
  14. rotren

    rotren Member

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    No. The notes in this scale are:

    A | A# | C | C# | D# | E | F# | G

    What you can do is to play these Major Triads: A, C, D#, F# which sounds really cool. I have a video that shows how to use one of those triads - see below. The concept is simple - those triads are 1.5 whole steps apart from each other. Rinse and repeat.

     
  15. dead of night

    dead of night Member

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    thank you rotren, but could you play these dom chords before going to D7 from the I and still be using the dim scale?

    A7, C7, F#7, Eb7?
     
  16. rotren

    rotren Member

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    Yes, you can. If you use any of those Dom. 7 chords tastefully over the A7 chord (or over C7, D#7, F#7), it will work.
     
  17. Edwood

    Edwood Member

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    Great Lesson! Thank you!
     
  18. JonR

    JonR Member

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    Yes - but what will make it work is to think about how you resolve it, on to chord tones (or maybe 6th or 9th) of the D7 chord. I.e., you have to make it connect and flow, not just treat it as a wacky sound on the A7 chord.
    The A HW dim scale gives you a whole slew of half-step voice moves, which is kind of the point of it in the first place. As follows:

    A HW dim > D7 chord tones/extensions
    G > F#
    F# > F# (shared tone)
    E > F# or D (rare whole step move!)
    D# > D or E (9th)
    C# > D or C
    C > (C shared tone)
    Bb > A or B (13th)
    A > A (shared tone

    Naturally, those dom7 arps give you good strong structures (better than scale runs), but it's still how you come out of them that matters. That's where the "taste" element comes from... ;)

    You don't have to just hit that target resolution on the downbeat of the D7 and hold it! You can make the target note the beginning of another lick on the D7. Or (if you're clever) you can delay the resolution to the target, or conceal it in some way. But the ear will look for (and pick up on) the resolution of any "outside" chromaticism to the nearest "inside" note.
     
  19. rotren

    rotren Member

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    Good advice, Jon - thanks!
     
  20. Guitardave

    Guitardave Supporting Member

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    Nice stuff - thanks for sharing it. I liked the phrasings you used with the diminished run...simple and effective.
     

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