Direct box/cab sim for bass live, using head with no DI out?

TubeStack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,005
Our bass player uses an old Traynor YBA-1 head live, sounds amazing. It doesn't have a DI out, though.

Is there a unit that could go between the head & cab and send a cab sim'd output direct to the board?

Thanks!
 

SteveO

Member
Messages
16,659
Most DI boxes have a thru output, and are used all the time by bass players with no cab sims. Guitars (mainly distorted ones) sound pretty bad direct without a cab sim, but basses aren't a problem.
 

walterw

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
38,959
sure, plenty of speaker-level DIs out there; they're not load boxes, they just take a tiny bit of signal off the speaker output on its way to the cab.

+1 to cab simulation not being critical with basses, plenty of good direct bass tones can be had without even having an amp.
 

sysexguy

Member
Messages
1,253
There are a good selection of choices although some are more voiced for guitar.

You could try:

H&K Redbox
Mesa CabClone
Two Notes Torpedo (which I am involved with, see my sig)
TAD Fanta
Aiken GoldBrick
or a speaker level DI to an IR loader like the Logidy Espi

Most of these devices isolate the signal via a transformer which depending on how it is designed, can saturate, especially with bass. I find this distortion degrades the sound and does not lead to a true simulation.

Andy
 

batsbrew

Member
Messages
5,777
Sansamp Bass DI.

has a 'thru' output, so that you can take a feed from the pedal directly to the soundboard, and an unaffected thru the pedal, to the amp.

great for recording, you can use a filtered AND unfiltered/preamped signal.
i do this all the time, run a track off the sansamp, and with the thru, send it directly to a mic preamp and compressor, straight to the sound card.

lots of flexibility this way.
 

TubeStack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,005
I should add that his bass sound is pretty overdriven (active pickups slamming front end of the old Traynor, I guess), so it might still need cab sim?
 

Endr_rpm

Member
Messages
3,265
I should add that his bass sound is pretty overdriven (active pickups slamming front end of the old Traynor, I guess), so it might still need cab sim?
I drive a smaller tube head hard for OD live, plus various fuzz pedals, and I mic it. I haven't found any of the commercially available solutions to be adaptable to the low end needed from a bass signal, though most have a nice high end roll off, which is what keep sit from sounding ganky in the PA. I have yet to find a FOH tech who minds using my microphone, but that doesn't mean they are not out there. Especially in the rock world, I think microphones for bass cabs are making a comeback. Just make sure you get a good set up. I use an Audix D4 and a Cab Grabber XL, all FOH has to do is plug into my XLR.

Sansamp is a PRE amp, so you won't get the bass amp sound into FOH.
H&K rolls off low end around 100hz, like an SM57
IR sims etc require tech most FOH guys won't understand.

Mic it.
 

TubeStack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
11,005
I drive a smaller tube head hard for OD live, plus various fuzz pedals, and I mic it. I haven't found any of the commercially available solutions to be adaptable to the low end needed from a bass signal, though most have a nice high end roll off, which is what keep sit from sounding ganky in the PA. I have yet to find a FOH tech who minds using my microphone, but that doesn't mean they are not out there. Especially in the rock world, I think microphones for bass cabs are making a comeback. Just make sure you get a good set up. I use an Audix D4 and a Cab Grabber XL, all FOH has to do is plug into my XLR.

Sansamp is a PRE amp, so you won't get the bass amp sound into FOH.
H&K rolls off low end around 100hz, like an SM57
IR sims etc require tech most FOH guys won't understand.

Mic it.


Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Have you tried the Radial JDX?

http://www.radialeng.com/jdx.php

"Although originally designed for guitar, the JDX has also become a favorite on bass. The clarity and punch in the lower mid range delivers a tone that is reminiscent of an Ampeg SVT connected to an 8x10 cabinet. On guitar it sounds as if you have a Shure SM57 in front of a Marshall half-stack."
 

batsbrew

Member
Messages
5,777
Sansamp is a PRE amp, so you won't get the bass amp sound into FOH.
yes, but actually, it will probably be better than your amp sound.

so, you can send the sansamp signal, processed, direct to FOH,
and use the 'thru' in the sansamp, to send the signal like normal to the amp and drive it normally.

you not only have a device that replaces a direct box, you have a device that you can eq and gain to your hearts' content as well.
 

walterw

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
38,959
yes, but actually, it will probably be better than your amp sound.

so, you can send the sansamp signal, processed, direct to FOH,
and use the 'thru' in the sansamp, to send the signal like normal to the amp and drive it normally.

you not only have a device that replaces a direct box, you have a device that you can eq and gain to your hearts' content as well.
i'm a sansamp BDDI user myself, but using it this way means the cool old traynor tube amp in the OP's question becomes irrelevant, nobody hears it.

hell, i run my sansamp into a straight-up PA power amp for bass, works perfectly. no "tone" in the bass amp at all, it's entirely in the sansamp.

with a tube bass amp that has no line outs, i'd just mic the bass amp with a good mic capable of getting the low end; not so much a kick mic, they tend to be too mid-scooped and lows/highs hyped, but something like a "floor tom" mic.
 

Endr_rpm

Member
Messages
3,265
yes, but actually, it will probably be better than your amp sound.

so, you can send the sansamp signal, processed, direct to FOH,
and use the 'thru' in the sansamp, to send the signal like normal to the amp and drive it normally.

you not only have a device that replaces a direct box, you have a device that you can eq and gain to your hearts' content as well.
Yes, I've used the BDDI and the VT pedals. I know how to bass :) I didn't care for either of them over the sound of my amp properly miced up. I bring all my own gear to make that happen.

To the OP, I have not used the JDX, but I am also not looking for the sound of a sealed 8x10.
 






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