Disappointed.

Szabo Wabo

Member
Messages
180
Harsh crowd here. Man.

Mesa is obviously within its rights to deny any out-of-warranty service on an amp from 2011, but I think they’re missing an opportunity to turn a sucky situation into one which will earn them a loyal, lifelong customer who will sing their praises to everyone else. They’ve certainly done things for me that they weren’t obligated to do. Granted, they were a much smaller company back then. What would the good customer relations gesture cost them? $50? $75? Is it worth souring a customer on the Mesa name forever over that? Especially since it was an issue with how the amp was designed/made originally and not some part that failed? Does Mesa want a sub-par amp out there performing with their name on it? I don’t know, I don’t think the OP is coming across as entitled. He’s not asking for them to fix a part that failed long after the warranty expired. He’s asking them to fix an issue that was there when it rolled off the assembly line.

It sucks that the seller lied. Not cool.

It sucks that the OP didn’t catch the flaw even though he clearly was aware of it and checked for it.

And I’m sorry, but it sucks that Mesa is missing out on an opportunity to fix something they did wrong (even if it was in 2011) and earn a Mesa fan for life who would likely be a huge advocate for the brand for way less than the $150 some of you are calling paltry.
 

bluegrif

Member
Messages
4,682
Just some observations.

The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.

It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!

And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,123
Just some observations.

The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.

It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!

And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.

TGP never seems to pass up an opportunity to let people know that A) They made a mistake and that B) Spending money should be NO problem at all, because money falls freely from the arsehole of each one of us.
 

Vaibhav Joshi

Member
Messages
2,374
Situations like this are why I rarely buy used gear. Almost every time I've bought a used amp I've had problems with it. In many cases the cost to get the problem fixed brought my total cost for the amp up to about the same as I could have bought a new one for.

Nowadays even new amps are full of problems. Used amps are just as bad if not worse but you dont have a warranty or return period.
Actually despite any problems, I'll still prefer to buy used unless it's an electronic item.
It's inexpensive & mostly you can check for any major problems.
And even if any small problems pop up, it's a small trouble to get it fixed. Overall, the product gets recycled & has some character to it as well.
But with age, you try to avoid hassle & prefer reassurance. I get that.
 

guitarman3001

Member
Messages
10,255
Actually despite any problems, I'll still prefer to buy used unless it's an electronic item.
It's inexpensive & mostly you can check for any major problems.
And even if any small problems pop up, it's a small trouble to get it fixed. Overall, the product gets recycled & has some character to it as well.
But with age, you try to avoid hassle & prefer reassurance. I get that.
With age comes experience, and the realization that I don't care for the experience of buying a used amp after trying it out for 10 minutes at the seller's house, then taking it home and finding a million problems that weren't evident during the 10 minute demo. It also sucks buying new amps and having them be broken out of the box, some with issues so bad that the amp manufacturer sends you a check themselves because they can't fix the problem and all of the remaining stock of that model also has the problem. But that sucks much less because I can return it for a replacement or refund even though it's a hassle. It sure beats being out $600+ though.
 

spentron

Member
Messages
1,678
When is this happening? Mesa and most others tend to place the effects loop after the master volume, so the effects level is only consistent if you always keep the master volume, etc. the same and use the effects return level (when present) or volume control at the end of the effects chain as the actual master volume. Otherwise noise may be picked up from the effects at low volumes. I don't know how they do reverb but attenuation in the loop may help there as well for low volume use.

Just because there's a known issue doesn't mean it's what you're experiencing. ;)
 

Vaibhav Joshi

Member
Messages
2,374
Well, taxes and shipping charges are gonna be a thing no matter what year it is. If I want to buy from Japan or Australia, it's gonna cost me more than here in the States. I see guitars on eBay from Japan - same guitar here is $1000 less (note the $ goes in front of the number, not picking on you as I can't speak your language at all I'm sure, but a peeve of mine that I even call my 18yo out on) - - not understanding the BJ/DRRI example - both new the BJ is more money in your market?
Yes, I understand that & it would have to be considered. But it pinches a lot because the extra cost is not adding any value to the product.
The BJ/DRRI example is: A new BJ is the same money as a DRRI costs in the US
Here, I'm getting a BJ for $1100 & in the US, you can get a DRRI for that price.
After reading on the difference between the amps, I don't think I'll be getting the BJ for that price, here.
P.S: I didn't realise the '$' usage. Thanks for pointing it out, even in India the symbol comes before the denomination.
 

Benderp

Member
Messages
191
You mean to say there are no circumstances where a company may recall a product because an issue not related to safety needed to be addressed?
If a negative side effect of a product/product line would generate negative feedback for a company, you'd better believe they'd recall it if they felt it would negatively affect their brand or their bottom line.
I am in no way suggesting my situation qualifies for that, but the original issue may.

For example if a product: let's say a vacuum cleaner produced a noxious odour every time it was used, but was in no way a safety issue, do you honestly think the company would just let it ride and let the word of mouth gain momentum to the point that people would avoid their product?

I was lead to believe that this was a recall issue. Was I naive in believing it? Probably so, and I have learned a lesson. But in no way was my explanation and question malicious.
Did I want Mesa to cover it? Yes.
But I came here to see if my experience was unique and/or reasonable.

Believe of me and my intentions what you want.
Would you sell it for what you paid? If not, get it fixed. I cant understand why you didnt take it up with the seller? Either way, dont sweat the small stuff, it really isnt worth it
 

boo radley

Member
Messages
2,121
TGP never seems to pass up an opportunity to let people know that A) They made a mistake and that B) Spending money should be NO problem at all, because money falls freely from the arsehole of each one of us.
I agree with "A", but "B" just comes with the territory. It's sort of like someone bitching about the cost of an after-market part in a BMW forum....

But there is a weird collective group think where the customer is never right, on TGP. I've thought about this -- it's an interesting psychological aspect, given you'd think the sentiment should be *pro*-consumer. My guess is:

1) Favoritism. No one in a group of consumers wants to see another buyer receive 'special' treatment. If the warranty is 5 years, then by god, that's what you should get -- it's what *I* got, etc...

2) Imbued friendship/relationship to the mfgr. I guess this is just fanboism. Person or Company A makes something. Person B buys it. But Person B is mentally invested, too, and worked himself up to a point where there's some imagined relationship and loyalty to the manufacturer. NASCAR phenomenon. 50,000 people wearing "Tide" logos....
 

Tone Loco

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,322
The “interesting” thing about design flaws is that it’s a loose term. The “mark II” of pretty much any amp could be seen as fixes for design flaws of mark I versions. Or blackface vs brown, tweed, etc.

Flaws are things that can be improved, and that covers a huge territory. Even after moving past ones that involve safety.

I guess at the point a company acknowledges a flaw and offers to fix it for free it seems like they have crossed a line, though there’s not a particular term to separate that kind of design flaw from any other, as far as I know. Maybe it’s more obvious than some others or maybe just easier to fix/improve.

I’m not sure I buy the “customer for life if only they’d fix it for free well after the warranty” thing in this case. Sounds like the OP is on the fence about the amp regardless of the noise. And they don’t seem to be losing lots of love here due to their approach.

FWIW and as has been pointed out already, Mesa actually has a great transferable warranty.
 

Atmospheric

Member
Messages
3,537
Just some observations.

The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.

It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!

And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.
Everyone believes that they are empathetic and a decent human being. Clearly some aren't.

I agree with other posters about the optics. Fixing this problem (even fixing all the amps with the problem) won't materially affect Mesa's bottom line. But having a reputation for not caring about their customers just might. This is after all a design flaw common to all those amps, not breakage due to use. Mesa's position seems penny wise and pound foolish to me. But since I am unlikely to ever own another Mesa product, I guess I'm not their target demographic.
 

MilwMark

Member
Messages
2,621
I’m surprised people are piling on the seller.

Even in OP’s one-sided account he acknowledges the “issue” was not apparent when testing the amp.
 

markjsmith

Member
Messages
3,599
That is the risk of buying stuff used!
I bought an amp with a bent chassis. Previous buyer disclosed but claimed it did not affect the tone, or sound, amp performs and functions normally, etc.... Unfortunately it had serious vibration issues because of the bent chassis that were audible, it was pretty much unusable. Amp manufacturer wouldn't do anything to help, previous owner basically told me to f*** off!
Because of stuff like this I'm super careful before I purchase anything used as I was pretty much out $1500 for that amp! Now my crapload of questions usually pisses off sellers, but several times now I have bought stuff used that was claimed to be mint and had issues that would have made me pass on the sale (disclosed and downplayed or undisclosed)!
If you'd bought new either that wouldn't happen or you'd be under warranty!

MESA has a very generous warranty BTW! It's not on them to honor any warranty that is expired or void to anyone! The previous owner if he told you it didn't have the issue is at fault here! He may have never used the loop or not known there was an issue, but if he told you it didn't have the issue it's on him! That doesn't mean you have any recourse, but thats again "the risk of buying used"!
 

Tone Loco

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,322
I’m surprised people are piling on the seller.

Even in OP’s one-sided account he acknowledges the “issue” was not apparent when testing the amp.
I have had amps that I never even fired up at home, used for years only in a practice space or gigs. Not hard to believe the seller was being straight in this case.

I feel for the buyer, having had my share of disappointment/aggravation/cost with used gear but I think his expectations were overly optimistic as far as having the manufacturer make him whole given the particulars. There’s some grey area but all in all I think this just has to be put in the lesson learned category.
 




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