Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by GrooveMerchant, Aug 13, 2019.
Oh, I remember writing it.
But thanks for your contribution.
Sure, they are different. But they're both covered under warranty.
when you purchase a new product with a warranty you are protecting yourself in 2 ways:
1- from flawed components that were missed during the manufacturing QC process
2- from design flaws that were missed during the R&D QC/beta testing processes
When buying used you give up those protections, but you usually get a better price, so it's a trade off.
Recalls, as you now know, are different. In an amplifier's case, if this amp was incorrectly grounded and could possibly electrocute you, that would be a recall and it wouldn't expire.
Hahah. Serious poo
54D32615-C488-4AD2-9A7F-2B590A9C94D9 by Hackdog69 posted Aug 14, 2019 at 8:37 PM
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but thanks anyway.
Harsh crowd here. Man.
Mesa is obviously within its rights to deny any out-of-warranty service on an amp from 2011, but I think they’re missing an opportunity to turn a sucky situation into one which will earn them a loyal, lifelong customer who will sing their praises to everyone else. They’ve certainly done things for me that they weren’t obligated to do. Granted, they were a much smaller company back then. What would the good customer relations gesture cost them? $50? $75? Is it worth souring a customer on the Mesa name forever over that? Especially since it was an issue with how the amp was designed/made originally and not some part that failed? Does Mesa want a sub-par amp out there performing with their name on it? I don’t know, I don’t think the OP is coming across as entitled. He’s not asking for them to fix a part that failed long after the warranty expired. He’s asking them to fix an issue that was there when it rolled off the assembly line.
It sucks that the seller lied. Not cool.
It sucks that the OP didn’t catch the flaw even though he clearly was aware of it and checked for it.
And I’m sorry, but it sucks that Mesa is missing out on an opportunity to fix something they did wrong (even if it was in 2011) and earn a Mesa fan for life who would likely be a huge advocate for the brand for way less than the $150 some of you are calling paltry.
Just some observations.
The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.
It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!
And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.
TGP never seems to pass up an opportunity to let people know that A) They made a mistake and that B) Spending money should be NO problem at all, because money falls freely from the arsehole of each one of us.
Actually despite any problems, I'll still prefer to buy used unless it's an electronic item.
It's inexpensive & mostly you can check for any major problems.
And even if any small problems pop up, it's a small trouble to get it fixed. Overall, the product gets recycled & has some character to it as well.
But with age, you try to avoid hassle & prefer reassurance. I get that.
With age comes experience, and the realization that I don't care for the experience of buying a used amp after trying it out for 10 minutes at the seller's house, then taking it home and finding a million problems that weren't evident during the 10 minute demo. It also sucks buying new amps and having them be broken out of the box, some with issues so bad that the amp manufacturer sends you a check themselves because they can't fix the problem and all of the remaining stock of that model also has the problem. But that sucks much less because I can return it for a replacement or refund even though it's a hassle. It sure beats being out $600+ though.
When is this happening? Mesa and most others tend to place the effects loop after the master volume, so the effects level is only consistent if you always keep the master volume, etc. the same and use the effects return level (when present) or volume control at the end of the effects chain as the actual master volume. Otherwise noise may be picked up from the effects at low volumes. I don't know how they do reverb but attenuation in the loop may help there as well for low volume use.
Just because there's a known issue doesn't mean it's what you're experiencing.
Yes, I understand that & it would have to be considered. But it pinches a lot because the extra cost is not adding any value to the product.
The BJ/DRRI example is: A new BJ is the same money as a DRRI costs in the US
Here, I'm getting a BJ for $1100 & in the US, you can get a DRRI for that price.
After reading on the difference between the amps, I don't think I'll be getting the BJ for that price, here.
P.S: I didn't realise the '$' usage. Thanks for pointing it out, even in India the symbol comes before the denomination.
IMO That’s on you not Mesa
Would you sell it for what you paid? If not, get it fixed. I cant understand why you didnt take it up with the seller? Either way, dont sweat the small stuff, it really isnt worth it
I agree with "A", but "B" just comes with the territory. It's sort of like someone bitching about the cost of an after-market part in a BMW forum....
But there is a weird collective group think where the customer is never right, on TGP. I've thought about this -- it's an interesting psychological aspect, given you'd think the sentiment should be *pro*-consumer. My guess is:
1) Favoritism. No one in a group of consumers wants to see another buyer receive 'special' treatment. If the warranty is 5 years, then by god, that's what you should get -- it's what *I* got, etc...
2) Imbued friendship/relationship to the mfgr. I guess this is just fanboism. Person or Company A makes something. Person B buys it. But Person B is mentally invested, too, and worked himself up to a point where there's some imagined relationship and loyalty to the manufacturer. NASCAR phenomenon. 50,000 people wearing "Tide" logos....
The “interesting” thing about design flaws is that it’s a loose term. The “mark II” of pretty much any amp could be seen as fixes for design flaws of mark I versions. Or blackface vs brown, tweed, etc.
Flaws are things that can be improved, and that covers a huge territory. Even after moving past ones that involve safety.
I guess at the point a company acknowledges a flaw and offers to fix it for free it seems like they have crossed a line, though there’s not a particular term to separate that kind of design flaw from any other, as far as I know. Maybe it’s more obvious than some others or maybe just easier to fix/improve.
I’m not sure I buy the “customer for life if only they’d fix it for free well after the warranty” thing in this case. Sounds like the OP is on the fence about the amp regardless of the noise. And they don’t seem to be losing lots of love here due to their approach.
FWIW and as has been pointed out already, Mesa actually has a great transferable warranty.
Just get a Helix
Everyone believes that they are empathetic and a decent human being. Clearly some aren't.
I agree with other posters about the optics. Fixing this problem (even fixing all the amps with the problem) won't materially affect Mesa's bottom line. But having a reputation for not caring about their customers just might. This is after all a design flaw common to all those amps, not breakage due to use. Mesa's position seems penny wise and pound foolish to me. But since I am unlikely to ever own another Mesa product, I guess I'm not their target demographic.
I’m surprised people are piling on the seller.
Even in OP’s one-sided account he acknowledges the “issue” was not apparent when testing the amp.