Disappointed.

Messages
3,817
The “interesting” thing about design flaws is that it’s a loose term. The “mark II” of pretty much any amp could be seen as fixes for design flaws of mark I versions. Or blackface vs brown, tweed, etc.

Flaws are things that can be improved, and that covers a huge territory. Even after moving past ones that involve safety.

I guess at the point a company acknowledges a flaw and offers to fix it for free it seems like they have crossed a line, though there’s not a particular term to separate that kind of design flaw from any other, as far as I know. Maybe it’s more obvious than some others or maybe just easier to fix/improve.

I’m not sure I buy the “customer for life if only they’d fix it for free well after the warranty” thing in this case. Sounds like the OP is on the fence about the amp regardless of the noise. And they don’t seem to be losing lots of love here due to their approach.

FWIW and as has been pointed out already, Mesa actually has a great transferable warranty.
Good points, good perspectives.

After my experiences, I factor “service costs” into the acquisition price of the new amp, and TRY to factor in the time to drop it off with either of the two local techs before I need the new to me amp.

But nothing is free, and costs of ownership tend to be higher with tube amps versus say, a JC-120. If I buy this Mesa Mark V head I’ve been eyeing, after shipping and the technician’s $40 bench charge, if I’m still ahead of buying new, good for me! Buying used was a good choice.

But it’s possible that maybe the price was good not great, and some of the tubes are at the end of their service life, so I’m also on the hook for a full retube.

In the OP’s case, I understand his frustration first hand, but frustration alone won’t solve the problem.

He’s got an amp he’s ambivalent about, he can’t ethically move it on without either fixing it or at least disclosing the problem, and fixing it costs more money. And disclosure probably means getting less than he spent.

I’d suggest solving each issue in turn.

Like the amp: yes/no? If the amp is a keeper, fix it.

Don’t like it: fix it, get as much as you can for it, move on.
 

JCW308

Supporting Member
Messages
7,683
well there was only one question in the OP and it was "Am I wrong" . If the only answer he wants is "No" why even ask that question then?
Because they want to share their disappointment and heartbreak with the world I guess.
 

JackfromAK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,095
My favorite part of this is that Mesa acknowledges that the problem with the amp is absolutely of their making.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,093
Because they want to share their disappointment and heartbreak with the world I guess.
Meh. It's an amp forum. We are all brothers and sisters in arms here.

Let 'em vent.

Thankfully no one has to read or reply to this.
 

Tone Loco

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,319
My favorite part of this is that Mesa acknowledges that the problem with the amp is absolutely of their making.
To the point that they fixed it for owners, including 2nd hand ones, who thought it was enough of a "problem" to have fixed for free. I never heard of Marshall, Fender or Vox doing that. Then again they sell way more amps and can probably afford it a little easier, so hopefully they do. Pretty sure all of them have put out an amp or two with a noise issue that could have used a fix.
 

StummerJoe

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,147
I bet Mesa is disappointed that someone is complaining about their service for no reason online too.....
^^^ THIS!!! Mesa has always stood behind their products and bends over backwards to make sure their customers are happy. Groovemerchant, however, you were not a customer of Mesa Boogie. You were a customer of the guy who sold you a used amplifier. Big difference. On the plus side, Mesa WILL do the fix.

What I am curious about, is that you said you didn't notice the sound in the environment where you checked it out, and that it doesn't seem to be a problem when played loud, only quietly. So how loud did you play it when you checked it out? You didn't try it at different volume levels?

Sorry for your disappointment, but like others have said, at least Mesa will do the fix, and $150 isn't much. I can't think of any company that will honor their warranty after it has expired. Many don't honor after a change of ownership, though some do. Some companies wouldn't even respond.
 
Messages
290
^^^
What I am curious about, is that you said you didn't notice the sound in the environment where you checked it out, and that it doesn't seem to be a problem when played loud, only quietly. So how loud did you play it when you checked it out? You didn't try it at different volume levels?
I did try it at different levels, but with only about 10 minutes to try it out, and a noisyish environment the issue wasn't evident.
I also didn't know exactly what it would sound like having only read about the issue online.
It's not a HUGE noise, but it is noticable and annoying at apartment/recording levels.
With what I know now, I would have done my test run at the guy's place differently for sure.
Hindsight.
 

Schafrocks

Member
Messages
2,427
Just some observations.

The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.

It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!

And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.
I think it’s been pointed out that even they did cover it would likely be just as expensive to pay for shipping to Mesa for the repair. Plus, taking the chance it getting damaged in route. It doesn't even make sense financially. I understand him being disappointed because his amp isn’t performing to his expectations. But, it would probably be cheaper to take it somewhere locally to repair it and more than likely they are going to go over the amp and make sure there are no other issues with the amp. Which, would be a good idea anyway. That comes with the territory buying used.

Mesa repairing the amp would be a great good will gesture but expecting them to do it is unreasonable given the age of the amp and being out of warranty.

Again, even if they did, it would more than likely cost more to ship it to them than take it to someone locally. Just based on that. I’m not sure what the beef is with Mesa. If the 150 really the issue, it’s not going to be cheaper for Mesa to do it. To me that takes them out of the equation. If it was my amp , I wouldn’t take the chance of further Damaging the amp in transit. Plus, it’s a major pain in the ass properly boxing and shipping.
 

Cap'n Lee

Member
Messages
509
@Senor Forum, your pontificating as to what TGP does and thinks as a group - a group that you like to separate yourself from - lead me to suggest you might benefit from a little self-reflection

A point you make in this thread:
Spewing non-stop hyperbole isn't going to suddenly make you more right.
Your following posts from this same thread

It doesn't seem like the popular opinion, but I actually do think a company should fix, at their cost, any PROBLEM with an amp if it is a problem with their design. They screwed up and released the product into the world with a defect - it needs to be fixed.
He's expecting a product that Mesa SCREWED UP MAKING, and released to the public, to be fixed, particularly because they have a standard fix in place for it.
...ultimately, they screwed up and should fix it, because they DID screw up.
The only thing I do know is that the amp was released defective, and should be fixed.
It wouldn't be a burden in the slightest to a company of that size to fix their mistake.
This is just a defective amp and is Mesa’s fault.
Does Mesa screw up in this capacity regularly? I don’t hear about things like this with Mesa terribly often. All the more reason for them to make it right.
Quite frankly, I don’t even see how warranty is playing into this at all. They screwed up. Period. They released a defective product into the world and need to make it right.
Yeah, except that I don’t even expect Mesa to perform at John Suhr’s level. Just to perform enough to make this particular thing right.
This issue is Mesa’s fault and no one else’s.
I'd say it's more of a correction than a repair, even. They ****ed up. Period.
[Should Mesa be responsible outside their warranty period?] Yes, like in this particular case.
It also isn't performing to Mesa's expectations, you know, because they messed up.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,093
@Senor Forum, your pontificating as to what TGP does and thinks as a group - a group that you like to separate yourself from - lead me to suggest you might benefit from a little self-reflection

A point you make in this thread:


Your following posts from this same thread
Jesus. I’m just flattered.
 




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