Good points, good perspectives.The “interesting” thing about design flaws is that it’s a loose term. The “mark II” of pretty much any amp could be seen as fixes for design flaws of mark I versions. Or blackface vs brown, tweed, etc.
Flaws are things that can be improved, and that covers a huge territory. Even after moving past ones that involve safety.
I guess at the point a company acknowledges a flaw and offers to fix it for free it seems like they have crossed a line, though there’s not a particular term to separate that kind of design flaw from any other, as far as I know. Maybe it’s more obvious than some others or maybe just easier to fix/improve.
I’m not sure I buy the “customer for life if only they’d fix it for free well after the warranty” thing in this case. Sounds like the OP is on the fence about the amp regardless of the noise. And they don’t seem to be losing lots of love here due to their approach.
FWIW and as has been pointed out already, Mesa actually has a great transferable warranty.
To the point that they fixed it for owners, including 2nd hand ones, who thought it was enough of a "problem" to have fixed for free. I never heard of Marshall, Fender or Vox doing that. Then again they sell way more amps and can probably afford it a little easier, so hopefully they do. Pretty sure all of them have put out an amp or two with a noise issue that could have used a fix.My favorite part of this is that Mesa acknowledges that the problem with the amp is absolutely of their making.
^^^ THIS!!! Mesa has always stood behind their products and bends over backwards to make sure their customers are happy. Groovemerchant, however, you were not a customer of Mesa Boogie. You were a customer of the guy who sold you a used amplifier. Big difference. On the plus side, Mesa WILL do the fix.I bet Mesa is disappointed that someone is complaining about their service for no reason online too.....
I did try it at different levels, but with only about 10 minutes to try it out, and a noisyish environment the issue wasn't evident.^^^
What I am curious about, is that you said you didn't notice the sound in the environment where you checked it out, and that it doesn't seem to be a problem when played loud, only quietly. So how loud did you play it when you checked it out? You didn't try it at different volume levels?
I think it’s been pointed out that even they did cover it would likely be just as expensive to pay for shipping to Mesa for the repair. Plus, taking the chance it getting damaged in route. It doesn't even make sense financially. I understand him being disappointed because his amp isn’t performing to his expectations. But, it would probably be cheaper to take it somewhere locally to repair it and more than likely they are going to go over the amp and make sure there are no other issues with the amp. Which, would be a good idea anyway. That comes with the territory buying used.Just some observations.
The OP's disappointment is certainly justified. Though aware of the design flaw, the seller told him it wasn't an issue. Though what seems perfectly objective could, in this case, be somewhat subjective since the problem is apparently much less of an issue in the context of, say, a typical venue or a band mix. So not knowing how the seller used the amp, it's very likely he wasn't dishonest and it was, in fact, no problem for him. My Marshall Origin 20 has an effects loop which sounds a bit noisy here in my quiet studio. On the stage, the slight hum can't be heard at all.
It's true that no company is obligated to fix amps with design flaws indefinitely. That said, it would be good PR to continue to do so. After all, there are presumably a very finite number of examples out in the wild that need the fix. If I were running the company, I'd be inclined to make them right, which is the attitude I've encountered several times from other companies. Hell, I wrote to Hamilton Stands just asking if my 35 year old guitar stand could be fixed and they sent me a brand new stand!
And finally, I do think a percentage of TGP can be absurdly judgmental. Regardless of perceived fault, for Dog's sake, how about a little compassion for the woes of your brother musicians? If YOU found yourself in a similar scenario, wouldn't you be a tad disappointed? Even if you're mister moneybags and the $150 repair doesn't mean squat to you, still, it's a bummer when you buy something with a problem you weren't expecting. And don't even get me started with telling him he should have bought new with a warranty. Some of us have to watch our pennies. I have no idea if this is the case, but neither do you.
Your following posts from this same threadSpewing non-stop hyperbole isn't going to suddenly make you more right.
It doesn't seem like the popular opinion, but I actually do think a company should fix, at their cost, any PROBLEM with an amp if it is a problem with their design. They screwed up and released the product into the world with a defect - it needs to be fixed.
He's expecting a product that Mesa SCREWED UP MAKING, and released to the public, to be fixed, particularly because they have a standard fix in place for it.
...ultimately, they screwed up and should fix it, because they DID screw up.
The only thing I do know is that the amp was released defective, and should be fixed.
It wouldn't be a burden in the slightest to a company of that size to fix their mistake.
This is just a defective amp and is Mesa’s fault.
Does Mesa screw up in this capacity regularly? I don’t hear about things like this with Mesa terribly often. All the more reason for them to make it right.
Quite frankly, I don’t even see how warranty is playing into this at all. They screwed up. Period. They released a defective product into the world and need to make it right.
Yeah, except that I don’t even expect Mesa to perform at John Suhr’s level. Just to perform enough to make this particular thing right.
This issue is Mesa’s fault and no one else’s.
I'd say it's more of a correction than a repair, even. They ****ed up. Period.
[Should Mesa be responsible outside their warranty period?] Yes, like in this particular case.
It also isn't performing to Mesa's expectations, you know, because they messed up.
Jesus. I’m just flattered.