Disappointed.

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3,912
In the real world, MESA is kissing off this customer for good. That may or may not be wise based on the internal cost of the repair and overhead. IMO, yeah the amp is out of warranty but it was a known issue, and if the owner is willing to pay shipping, and hell, maybe cost for parts, why not fix?

I have an older Quilter amp and the light behind the front panel is wonky. I bought it used, it's out of warranty but when I asked Quilter about it, the response was "there was a problem with the blue LED's in some of the early models, and if I shipped it to them it would be fixed for free." Since it's purely cosmetic I ended up not bothering, but...That's excellent customer service.
I don't disagree with you at all man, that is excellent above and beyond customer service. I've experienced this kinda thing myself with a few companies (Suhr, primarily) and it always feels good. My point is that something like this is exactly what you just said - excellent customer service - and not a requirement/expectation that every single company should be held to.

Would it be nice of Mesa to have taken this dude's amp and fixed it for free? Absolutely. But that wasn't the question posed, the question was whether he was wrong to think that Mesa should cover the fix for this situation...and the answer to that is yes, because every company has policies and they're made known and in place for a reason. A company deserves protection just the same as the customer does.

As to the previous idea of them kissing off this customer for good...he's buying a used amp of theirs from 8 years ago (no offense to the amp as TAs are nice, and no offense to the OP as I'm sure he's nice as well!). Given the fact that he's also sweating a $150ish repair (of an issue he knew about in advance) hard enough to start a thread about it here voicing his disappointment in the company...I doubt he's going to be picking up anything new from them in the near future.

I have no clue why everyone keeps acting like this guy expects Mesa to provide the same warranty to all used products. That isn’t even remotely what is happening here.

Quite frankly, I don’t even see how warranty is playing into this at all. They screwed up. Period. They released a defective product into the world and need to make it right.

Let’s say, hypothetically, they get one in, and it’s not the original owner. Maybe they open it up and see that something has been changed (they’d know, because they’re the experts). They would then be in a position to contact the person who sent it in and explain that the amp isn’t stock and they would not be able to cover the work.

It’s not a complicated thing. And, in doing the above, they have done right by their fans, and owned up to their mistake.

If someone like John Suhr can offer damn near endless support on products new and old, original owner or 5th owner, on perfectly FUNCTIONING products, then I’d think they Mesa can offer support for the products they fumbled.
Yeah, that's a great hypothetical situation to talk about, precisely because it very easily CAN become a complicated thing. What hypothetically happens next in that situation is the customer goes after Mesa online for having him pay shipping, go through the hassle of sending the amp back, and then Mesa refusing to service the amp. That can get really fun really quick and you'll see a 50 page TGP thread in no time :). Companies have policies in place for a reason...to prevent complicated headache-inducing situations. Companies have an obligation to the original owner who paid them the money, that's it. Anything beyond that is outstanding customer service, and yes I agree John is a perfect example of someone who chooses to go above and beyond for every single customer. But my point is, again, that this is "exceptional" and not a standard that every company should be expected to uphold for every person who owns one of their products regardless of how many degrees of separation there are.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
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3,123
Yeah, except that I don’t even expect Mesa to perform at John Suhr’s level. Just to perform enough to make this particular thing right.

Look, it’s a relatively small subset of amps here. It doesn’t even affect them all.

And if someone gets their panties in a bunch and comes to whine to TGP about their MODIFIED amp not being covered by Mesa, then so be it. It happens.
 

el capitan

Member
Messages
5,269
Quite frankly, I don’t even see how warranty is playing into this at all. They screwed up. Period. They released a defective product into the world and need to make it right.
Curious... what do you think warranties are for, if not for defects? :huh
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,123
Curious... what do you think warranties are for, if not for defects? :huh
Parts fail. Things can go wrong, even if the design is flawless. The parts that make up that flawless design are all prone to potential failure.

If a company screws up the design, it isn’t something that is up to chance. It IS broken, and NEEDS to be fixed.

The warranty is for the former. Something that breaks that wasn’t the fault of the customer but also not really the fault of Mesa’s.

This issue is Mesa’s fault and no one else’s.
 

Vaibhav Joshi

Member
Messages
2,374
You probably should have checked BEFORE you bought the thing......
Our customers use the storage array in data centres, critical ones, a lot of banks, hospitals & govt./military/dark sites.
Even we can't assure there won't be any bugs. As & when some device hits a bug, we need to take care of it; if it's too old, the OS will be updated first.
This expensive an amp, they need to take care of it ESPECIALLY if it's a bug. It may not be the status quo but it should be.

That's helpful.
Why didn't I think of that?
I did ask the seller if it suffered from the issue, and he said no.
The environment in which I tried the amp was such that it wasn't evident.
It is not really noticeable at louder/gig volumes, but playing quietly at home or recording, it is annoying.
Haha, lol.

You bought it used. It’s on you.
Nope, it shouldn't be.
He's not the giant company making those amps & he's not a guy who tests amps.
He's just supposed to be a guy who plays guitar. And he's paying $$$$

I bet Mesa is disappointed that someone is complaining about their service for no reason online too.....
Well I was misled or mistaken in my understanding of this.
Just spoke with Mesa again and they clarified that it is a warranty issue, and not a recall as I was lead to believe.
So, it's on me to decide if I can live with the issue, or pony up the cash to address it.
Thank you for everyone who offered clarification.
To those offering judgement, thanks for nothing.
Yea, most people, thanks for nothing.
People are all about the analog gear & sound but in real life interactions, comments & behaviour, it's so sterile & so digital :confused:

My view is that I should be rich and good-looking.
I realized long ago that reality trumps my views. Don't be afraid, adulthood won't hurt you...
Larry
Wow, it's not like OP was so busy gaming that he forgot to turn off the gas stove.
I can appreciate both sides of this, but I feel like all of you who are super blunt, and essentially in people's faces about these types of things would probably never speak so plainly to someone in person.

God, the Internet is truly obnoxious sometimes.
This happens ever so often, online.
Youtube is even worse. The way people type a line & make a passing comment is very unnatural. Forums like TGP are a little better but with so many people together, quality of conversations suffers.
You'd expect one to address others as if in person but this usually happens with old(er) folks who also bother to compete a chat.
 

Phineas Ball

Fuzz
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,671
When did TGP become the complaint desk for the entire music industry?

It's ENTIRELY possible the seller had no idea there was a "known issue." There could be all kinds of "known issues" with the gear I own that cropped up before I bought it/them or while I've owned it/them and I'd have no idea, because I'm playing my gear instead of researching what the "known issues" are and complaining that I somehow got the short end of the stick on some online transaction with some guy who doesn't know any better than I did/do.

Get over it.
 

Someotherguy

Member
Messages
268
Used gear is... used gear. Can't say that I'd ever expect a manufacturer to cover repairs of any kind on used gear, and it sounds like Mesa took steps to make things right with their customers - the original owners who paid the premium price.
 

crosse79

Member
Messages
5,813
Here's my take:

1. Firstly it's a design flaw - means a product is shipped out defective for ALL the products within that range or batch. Doesn't matter if it's in 2050, Mesa has an obligation to fix it.

2. A warranty is different - this is to cover possible manufacturing defects that is not prevalent in ALL the products within that range or batch. The OP has no right to claim if this is indeed the case as it is out of the warranty period.

3. A lot of you says $150 is chump change. Maybe to us it's change, but to somebody it can be a lot of money. Don't know about you guys, last time I checked, there's a lot of things that can be bought for $150 - some families survive on $150 for a whole week. If it's chump change to us, imagine what is $150 to a company like Mesa.

Once again, this is not a manufacturing defect that affects the odd product here and there due to QC issues, this is a design flaw. Mesa should fix it for free, cause they should and they can. OP pays for shipping. If you want to run a good business - own up and fix your mistakes.

This is not about entitlement, complaints or passive aggressiveness - this is about the right perspective of the matter. I own a business that does manufacturing as well, and I would never turn away a customer if it's a design flaw on my end.
 
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Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,123
Used gear is... used gear. Can't say that I'd ever expect a manufacturer to cover repairs of any kind on used gear, and it sounds like Mesa took steps to make things right with their customers - the original owners who paid the premium price.
I'd say it's more of a correction than a repair, even. They ****ed up. Period.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,123
3. A lot of you says $150 is chump change. Maybe to us it's change, but to somebody it can be a lot of money. Don't know about you guys, last time I checked, there's a lot of things that can be bought for $150 - some families survive on $150 for a whole week. If it's chump change to us, imagine what is $150 to a company like Mesa.
THIS. How dare any of you just make the assumption that $150 bucks is chump change to anyone but yourself.
 

Schafrocks

Member
Messages
2,427
Yep that's what we & most people would do. I would pony up a little more & have the amp gone through & probably retubed. After that you have a beast workhorse of an amp that will be trouble free & outlive all of us!
Thing is by the time the new owner pays for shipping the amp, he could get a local tech to do the repair. Or close to it. I would say even if Mesa agreed to repair, the customer would be responsible for shipping the amp there and return. But even if they only did one way it’s going to be at least $50 to $75. So it kind of going to be a wash anyway.

But again, there aren’t very many companies are going to do a repair after the warranty has expired. I don’t think they are being unreasonable. They amp is like 7 or 8 years old. Mesa is pretty well known for good customer service.
 

TwoHandsTenThumbs

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,108
When I buy a used amp - and granted, most are over 50 years old - I expect that I might have to pay for retubing, biasing, a cap job, a grounded power cable, touching up cold solder joints, removal of any unwanted “mods” by previous owners, and a possible recone or speaker replacement - even if the seller insists that all of that has been done.

Why? Because it is all part of routine maintainence with used tube amps, that may or may not have been done properly or to a standard that I am happy with.

Sometimes there is a desirable, well-known and adopted modification to the circuit that offers a substantive improvement that I might request. Sometimes I elect to replace a stock or aftermarket speaker with one of my choosing as I find it to be an improvement.

Sometimes I get off cheaper than I plan for, sometimes not.

Rarely is the path to my satisfaction less than $150 in parts or labor.

Does anybody buying a used tube amp really expect that it will be good to go, with no service required?

Does anybody really expect that a manufacturer should be responsible to cover a repair, even a manufacturing defect in materials or design, for anyone past a generous and well-known warranty period? Particularly if the owner bought the item second hand,?

Some folks are better off buying new, it seems, as the service will more closely match their expectations even if the price doesn’t.
 
Messages
9,012
Thing is by the time the new owner pays for shipping the amp, he could get a local tech to do the repair. Or close to it. I would say even if Mesa agreed to repair, the customer would be responsible for shipping the amp there and return. But even if they only did one way it’s going to be at least $50 to $75. So it kind of going to be a wash anyway.
Not just that -- shipping incurs risks to the amp itself. What happens when Mesa opens up the mangled box and says, "Sure, we'll fix the buzzing issue, and ship the non-working amp back"?

In the OP's shoes, I'd take it to my tech and eliminate shipping risk without losing much if any money compared to shipping to Mesa. As noted above, schematics would be called-for.
 

Senor Forum

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,123
Does anybody really expect that a manufacturer should be responsible to cover a repair, even a manufacturing defect in materials or design, for anyone past a generous and well-known warranty period? Particularly if the owner bought the item second hand?
Yes, like in this particular case.

Rhetorical questions are fun!
 

Gibson Dog

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,399
When I buy a used amp - and granted, most are over 50 years old - I expect that I might have to pay for retubing, biasing, a cap job, a grounded power cable, touching up cold solder joints, removal of any unwanted “mods” by previous owners, and a possible recone or speaker replacement - even if the seller insists that all of that has been done.

Why? Because it is all part of routine maintainence with used tube amps, that may or may not have been done properly or to a standard that I am happy with.

Sometimes there is a desirable, well-known and adopted modification to the circuit that offers a substantive improvement that I might request. Sometimes I elect to replace a stock or aftermarket speaker with one of my choosing as I find it to be an improvement.

Sometimes I get off cheaper than I plan for, sometimes not.

Rarely is the path to my satisfaction less than $150 in parts or labor.

Does anybody buying a used tube amp really expect that it will be good to go, with no service required?

Does anybody really expect that a manufacturer should be responsible to cover a repair, even a manufacturing defect in materials or design, for anyone past a generous and well-known warranty period? Particularly if the owner bought the item second hand,?

Some folks are better off buying new, it seems, as the service will more closely match their expectations even if the price doesn’t.
I said this earlier - I would have the amp checked out anyways, it's 8 or 9 years old who knows how it was treated. So just take it to be serviced - repaired & move on knowing you have an amp that should be bulletproof for decades. Move on.
 

TwoHandsTenThumbs

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,108
Yes, like in this particular case.

Rhetorical questions are fun!
So...

given that the current owner didn’t elect to buy this amp (or another, equivalent model) from Mesa with a generous warranty (included as part of the price of the amp), but elected to save money and purchase an amp used with all the risks and caveats that accompany buying used items...

and as such Mesa received no compensation for this transaction...

while the original owner, who Mesa would have gladly repaired the amp for (at no charge under warranty) elected not to exercise the warranty in question that they paid for as part of the new purchase price...

yet Mesa still offered to repair the amp for a reasonable bench fee...

and this is somehow to be perceived as Mesa not living up to their end of the deal?

Ok. Got it.
 




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