Disappointed.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by GrooveMerchant, Aug 13, 2019 at 3:14 PM.

  1. TwoHandsTenThumbs

    TwoHandsTenThumbs Silver Supporting Member

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    I guess Gibson should’ve stepped up all these years covering broken headstocks, largely the result of a a series of design flaws - headstock pitch and deep truss-rod route - for second hand buyers who experienced breaks.

    And Fender! Putting in undersized output transformers that intentionally saturate and compress, effectively highpassing the output to preserve the under spec’d speakers from blowing up, while often leading to premature OT failure. All the folks who bought second hand Tweed Pros, Supers, and Bandmasters, or BF Vibrolux, Vibroverb, and Pro Reverb amps that have had OT failures should be made whole!
     
  2. Senor Forum

    Senor Forum Gold Supporting Member

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    See? You get it. It isn’t complicated to grasp, but I’m still proud of you for being able to do so.
     
  3. Tootone

    Tootone Member

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    I think recalls are only in the case of Health and Safety and honoured by the maker because it is cheaper than a "culpable homicide" law suit.
     
  4. TwoHandsTenThumbs

    TwoHandsTenThumbs Silver Supporting Member

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    Ok. I’m sorry for any snark I dished out. Truly. But here’s what I guess I don’t get / or perhaps just don’t agree with.

    Mesa did own up to the problem. They would have fixed it, for free, for the original owner.
    That person, for whatever reason, decided to not take Mesa up on the free fix. Heck, if we accept the narrative as presented, it sounds like he must have been unaware of the problem / didn’t use the feature, as when asked directly by the OP, it seemed fine to him.

    While it might be nice for them to extend the fix for free to a second hand owner, and would be exceptional service / great PR...I guess I can’t find fault with them for agreeing to fix it for a reasonable bench fee, out of warranty, for a second hand amp that is 8 years old.

    I only buy used gear. I always assume that my cost savings from new carries the risk of not having any warranty or support from the manufacturer, as I’m not their customer. They never saw a penny from me. The reseller did.

    In this scenario, I can see some responsibility falling on the original owner for not representing the item correctly. But Mesa? Respectfully, I can’t, no matter how inconsequential it might seem, financially, to them as a business decision.
     
  5. Senor Forum

    Senor Forum Gold Supporting Member

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    I respect your opinion. :beer
     
  6. BluntForceTrauma

    BluntForceTrauma Member

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    Amp makers don't recall their defective products. They stiff the buyers to pay for the fix. Sort of like when I owned a Volvo.
     
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  7. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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  8. Nuclear Plexi

    Nuclear Plexi Member

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    Mesa does what they want. I have zero respect for the company... You probably got the good deal because it has problems. The deal was not so good after all. You get what you pay for.
     
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  9. Nuclear Plexi

    Nuclear Plexi Member

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    Side note: what is Mesa doing releasing amps with known issues? It's not like they're budget instruments...
     
  10. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Member

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    While I empathize with the OP, no doubt, I understand why Mesa’s holding their position.

    It’s out of warranty and a decade old. All kinds of things could have happened to that amp and they would have no way of knowing who did what and when until they got it to their shop or authorized tech. Components do fail, amps get all shook up in transit because the UPS guy is pissed at you for buying all this heavy stuff.

    Those of you who are cynical enough to think that Mesa’s motives are nefarious, think about all the shady characters coming out of the woodwork they’d have to deal with if they set a precedent with the OP.

    Is it even possible to know whether the amp legitimately didn’t hum during the previous owner’s tenure, but developed it later? Nope, impossible for us to know either way.

    All is not lost: a local tech will probably get you sorted for way less than a hundred and a half.

    In fact, the guy who worked on my Mesa @Tonemeister has already chimed in here.

    I bought a DC3 off Reverb back in March, shipped from Western PA. It had a rattle/squeal that took some time to sort out, but once sorted, I’ve got a smoking good amp.

    Now getting that problem sorted has involved new tubes, a new speaker and finally, some tube dampers (fixed it!), but I’m still at about half what I’d pay for a new or newer Boogie.
     
  11. eoengineer

    eoengineer Supporting Member

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    Mesa should probably give us all a free amp to make up for the inconvenience we’ve endured navigating this thread.

    A Mark V should be fine.
     
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  12. Cap'n Lee

    Cap'n Lee Member

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    Q.E.D.
     
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  13. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    Some manufacturers, such a Kemper, has the warranty follow the product and not the owner. If you buy a used one off ebay and it's defective but in warranty, Kemper will honor the warranty. This is how it should be IMHO.
     
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  14. robyogi

    robyogi Silver Supporting Member

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    Eh, IDK. I read somewhere that Mesa doesn't have very good service.
     
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  15. Dr.Picklebottom

    Dr.Picklebottom Member

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    what is happening here is a passive aggressive version of extortion. very few people here agree w the OP or benefit from this thread. were being held as a captive audience to the OP saying im going to make you look bad until you give me what i want even though its not reasonable and ive already been told no.

    i realize youre being purposely obtuse, though. i dont expect you to have learned anything new by me saying this.
     
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  16. buzzp

    buzzp Member

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    This.
     
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  17. HesNot

    HesNot Supporting Member

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    I'll weigh in with some perspective - I have Mesa TA30 212 combo. I bought it used at GC so did have a return option. At home I encountered some hum from the reverb circuit. Particularly noticeable at low volumes of course. I bought this maybe 2 years ago and did some research and found the discussions about the reverb hum. I play with reverb close to 100% of the time but not big atmospheric reverb - just a touch. But when I wanted more the hum was there. So I contacted Mesa, and at least in my case they offered to do the mod but it would of course require me to send the amp to Mesa in California or take it to an authorized repair center so they could check to see if it was something else. The cost to ship a 212 combo to California was, of course, prohibitive for a small fix, and the closest repair center is 2.5 hours away one way. Again a time/cost factor I was reticent to do as well but had that in my back pocket... I live in the largest city in NC so there are thankfully a handful of techs around - so Mesa sent me schematics for the mod for me to use if I chose to fix it locally (I'm sure I still have them saved somewhere on my Mac and will send to anyone who wants them). I contacted a tech and sent them the schematics and got an estimate of $100-150 also to do the mod which, compared to shipping, was at worst a wash and likely less expensive.

    The thing is - the Mesa is currently my main band amp and at my rehearsal space the hum was less pronounced and in fact I don't even notice it (in a room with another guitar player with a Marshall 50w head and 212, keys, bass, drums and PA there is plenty of other noise in the room). So I never got the mod done. Now I do know that the head is more susceptible than the combo due to the proximity of the reverb tank to transformers. But I did notice at home at low volume it was more noticeable - due to both low volume and some noise in the power circuits in the den where I practice (I've had hum from other amps in that room - a Blackstar HT40, a Peavey Classic MH, a Bad Cat Cub that lessen or go away on other circuits - I've added a Furman AC215A which helps but doesn't eliminate it....).

    All this is to say even if Mesa was willing to do the mod outside of warranty (and mine was outside of warranty albeit less so) the cost of having it done by them whether direct cost of shipping, or direct and indirect cost of time and travel, plus the risk and hassle of getting it packed up properly and hoping it arrives safely, was not really rational to me compared to having a local tech do the mod. And for me at least the other benefits of the amp outweighed the reverb hum at least in a band setting. YMMV.

    To contrast, I discovered a loose preamp tube socket on my Bad Cat Cub III 30R 112 combo (bought used from a private party) when I was trying to diagnose some static present at high volumes when playing notes. This seems like a likely culprit as it rattles around pretty freely. I tried to of course tighten the screws but they spun freely so they are not sheet metal screws but machine screws with a nut inside the chassis. I am OK doing some things on an amp but poking around the tube sockets is something I'm less inclined to do (high voltages) given the risks and the cost/value of the amp. I might tackle it in a less expensive amp following known safety procedures of course. Bad Cat has a transferrable lifetime warranty on this legacy model - so Bad Cat would take care of me - they have a great reputation. But assuming the tube socket is the issue (likely but regardless it needs to be fixed) is maybe 30 minutes for a qualified tech to deal with. Shipping the amp to Bad Cat in California would be costly, and of course the related risk of damage etc... A local tech quoted me $40-80 to fix the loose socket. A simple choice really economically. And that is with a full warranty.

    I share these stories to emphasize two points - first a full warranty is awesome if things go fully south but for relatively minor issues it may or may not be that valuable when considering all factors (and most amp companies will not pay for shipping for reasonable business reasons, i.e. to dissuade folks from shipping things in for problems that are not really problems - less likely with this crowd but the average user with less experience is a fair concern). A decision has to be made weighing the relative costs of using the warranty versus a local repair. The second is that the cost savings of buying a used amp (privately) comes with a certain amount of risk particularly with an older or no longer produced product. I assume a retube at minimum when I consider the price and what i'm willing to pay. I'll be honest the seller of the Bad Cat likely knew of this issue - as it is pretty consistent but you have to play it at pretty high volumes before it appears and I had not gotten to those levels - after a year it's pretty hard to go back to the person and say there is an issue and I want my money back. You did the right thing really testing it out when you got it and have a possibility of reversing the deal but... even then your options are challenging. The benefit of buying a new amp from an authorized retailer is that they will deal with the issue for you - shipping, replacement, etc.... So it's always a balance of is the deal good enough to bear the risk - there's a reason stuff sells used for often a substantial discount.
     
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  18. Ubersooner

    Ubersooner Member

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    Didn't the OP clear things up on page 1? What the hell is going on here?
     
  19. PaisleyWookie

    PaisleyWookie Member

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    Mesa isn't a giant company either, and they would have taken care of the issue, for a generous 5 years after the original purchase of the amp. There has to be a line in the sand somewhere.

    Maybe people are a little blunt because they're also tired of seeing the strong sense of self-entitlement so common these days everywhere. Large companies don't give a damn about anyone, yet Mesa goes further than most, and yet they get dumped on for not fixing an out of warranty amp? Er, okay.
     
  20. therhodeo

    therhodeo Member

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    Sometimes life is hard and we learn hard lessons, and yes sometimes lose money in the process. It's not mesa's fault that the OP didn't do his homework and is now out $150. Thats the danger of buying used through websites where you have no recourse. The adult thing to do is accept that a mistake was made and be happy its just $150.

    And anyone who can't afford $150 can't afford to be buying a mesa and likely isn't in danger of losing their livelihood over a noisy reverb if they have to wait to save up the $150.
     

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