Dissapointing fact about the new LP Traditional

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by Blue4Now, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. Blue4Now

    Blue4Now Gold Supporting Member

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    Was just over at the mylespaul forum (for the first time actually, nice folks) and there was a thread discusing the fact that the new tenon in the new Les Paul Traditional is not a solid peice of wood. I was really surprised to hear that and when looking closely at the pics of the new tenon in the MF site you can see the jiont pretty clearly. Anyone able to confirm the truth of this?
     
  2. aeronius

    aeronius Member

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    not a solid piece of wood? how does that work? is it grafted on at the heel? pics? There was a thread floating around here earlier that showed the new tenon. Definitely a different shape, but it looked like the neck was a continuous piece of wood throughout to me.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  3. aaronbarnes

    aaronbarnes Member

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    that picture you posted looks like it could go either way.....there's a definite line across the neck with a diamond looking thingy over the centerline....

    can't tell well enough from that picture if the grain is continuous thru the line or if it changes.
     
  4. 5E3

    5E3 Member

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    To me it looks like two pieces joined together. Note the diamond notch along the seam as pointed out by Aaron in the post above.
     
  5. Blue4Now

    Blue4Now Gold Supporting Member

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    The other forum had a blown up photo and it looked pretty clearly to be two peices joined together (grain pattern was differnt on each peice). People also noticed the diamond shaped peice as well. Could be a guide to line up correctly? Is it jsut me or does this seriously change the thought of this otherwise impressive looking tenon?
     
  6. 5E3

    5E3 Member

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    My first concern is how might it change the strength of the neck/body attachment. That depends on how the two are connected. There could be a dowel or something between them that could make the joint as strong or stronger than a single piece of wood.

    My second thought is how could this affect the tone? Resonating frequencies could easily be dampened by such a joint.
     
  7. Bryan T

    Bryan T Guitar Owner Silver Supporting Member

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    To my eyes, that looks like one piece of wood. It looks like the heel extends below (above in the picture) the part that goes into the body.

    Bryan
     
  8. treeofpain

    treeofpain Silver Supporting Member

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    It is a separate piece. Whether this affects the tone or not is debatable.
     
  9. CitizenCain

    CitizenCain Member

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    And will be debated ad nauseum :drink
     
  10. uOpt

    uOpt Member

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    I posted zoomed pictures over at mlp.

    It's clearly a separate piece of wood, if nothing else the little triangle shaped part of the joint and the different wood grain give it away.

    I highly doubt that Gibson is willing to buy that long pieces of neckable mahogany and even if so, then cut away that much of it (only leaving the tenon for an extended length).

    It is my opinion (part time Gibson basher, part time Gibson lover, YMMV) that Gibson actually does this to make necks out of shorter pieces of wood. It saves the normal short tenon, and given how rare suitably long pieces of mahogany are that can be a huge cost saving factor.
     
  11. Nuclearfishin

    Nuclearfishin Supporting Member

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    Strength is not an issue as a well made joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood--just look at all the scarf joints on a headstock (to include the diamond V-joint used in many Martins which is actually very strong). I suspect if Gibson is using several pieces, they are doing it to avoid twists and warps in the neck. A laminated neck with grain going in opposite directions is much more stable than a single piece of mahogany. Pieces of straight-grain mahogany that is perfectly quartersawn with no runout is more expensive and difficult to find consistantly. Using several pieces can make the necks stronger, more stable, cheaper to purchase, and easier to manufacture.
     
  12. uOpt

    uOpt Member

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    But what we see in the picture isn't a laminate. It's a tenon separate from the neck, with both held together by their sides and the fretboard.
     
  13. Supasso

    Supasso Member

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    Wow, this is practically the same as not using a tenon at all. What's the point of having a glued-on tenon like this when they can just glue it directly to the body?
     
  14. SGNick

    SGNick Member

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    Much like a re-glued headstock, The joint would essentially be stronger than just wood no?
     
  15. Rockinrob86

    Rockinrob86 Supporting Member

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    We should gang up with the lpf forum guys, everybody throw in 10 bucks, buy one, and take a saw to it to see for sure how this thing works.
     
  16. cottoneyedjoe

    cottoneyedjoe Member

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    And let the games begin....:D
     
  17. DrGonzo

    DrGonzo Gold Supporting Member

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    Do you mind linking the pics here? I can't find them at the other forum you mentioned. Thanks!
     
  18. uOpt

    uOpt Member

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    I believe that there is a more complex structure in the glue surfaces. The triangle on top is probably just one element.

    I have no doubt that this will be stable. But sound? Yeah, if you are lucky. But the chances that two random pieces of wood play nicely together? Less than with a real tenon.
     
  19. Drew68

    Drew68 Supporting Member

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    That's exactly how it looks to me.

    Gibson specifically mentions that this is a one piece mahogany neck. Wouldn't a glued on tenon make this false advertising?
     
  20. aky01

    aky01 Member

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    I've been looking into the new LP Traditional and I'm pretty sure that this new tenon is only being used on the '08 Standards. I think there's confusion because Musicians Friend accidentally published a picture of this tenon with the Traditionals, it's not there now. Also there is no mention of this new tenon for the Traditionals at the Gibson website.

    This is what "Inside Guy" has to say at the mylespaul forum:
    http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/10163-les-paul-traditional.html#post154273

    "Just to clear a few things up.

    1) Chambered LP's are selling fabulously. They are NOT going away, and most people dont want us to stop making them.

    2) We are making the LP Traditional for the folks who said that they dont like chambering. The fans of the heavy LP are in the minority, but hey...we can make them for you if you want them.

    3) The new neck tenon AND neck shape is for the new LP Standard '08

    4) the LP Traditional will be like the 80-90's era LP Standard. Short rocker tenon and all.

    5) The LP Traditional was never intended to have the new neck tenon. Altough, a typo in a press release is not out of the question, but I hope this clears it up."
     

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