DMM XO: older Japanese MN3008 vs new Chinese chips?

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
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29,921
Back in the day... Panasonic started making BBD chips. They started with the 30 series, which are high headroom (15v) devices. They then transitioned to the 32 series, which are 9v devices, so less headroom (distort more easily) but slightly lower noise. Coolaudio and another Chinese company started to copy the 32 series a long time ago, and there's generally not thought to be a huge difference in sound between the MN3205 and the CA3205. XVIVE then started to make the MN3005, to great rejoicing. There has been some benchmarking and it appears there may be the tiniest little increase in noise with the chinese chips. It also seems like the Xvive delay, despite being designed by Howard Davis, just didn't measure up to a DMM.
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
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16,008
What year did they stop producing the Panasonic MN3008’s in the XO? 2019?


Panasonic discontinued the MN300x series in the 1990's.
There are webpages I've seen copied from the WayBack Machine where DIY forums were talking about trying to find NOS Panasonic chips in the earliest of 2000's.

The SAD line was discontinued in the 80's (mid-80's, iirc) after one of the many corporate acquisitions that moved the Reticon IP around... I think they EOL'd in EG&G's hands, but there were significant issues with production fallout, and the IC process used to make them was a bit antiquated (early/mid 70's era) and not very applicable to the direction that chips were taking at the time.
 

drbob1

Gold Supporting Member
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29,921
As I understand it the SAD chips were also pretty delicate compared to Panasonic, and a bit noisy despite their higher clock speed.
 

TheReplicant

Member
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790
Well... with that information I can safely say I prefer the coolaudio chips over both mn3005 chips (vintage and reissue).

Should I deactivate my TGP account now?
The 2 BBD delays which I like the best in terms of infinite repeats without runaway oscillation are the Meet Maude and the AD4096 which both use the Coolaudio. Of course the overall circuit plays a part, they both use compression and limiting, but at any rate it belies the notion that Coolaudio are inherently inferior to the Xvives.
 

Tung-Sol Tube

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1,664
I haven't seen any using the Coolaudio (=Behringer) V3205 or V3208 chips.
EHX used the Belling chips (BL3208) in them.
Shoot, my bad. I think you’re right. At least I got the number correct, haha. I know the Carbon Copy uses the Belling BL3208 and the MB/DMB/MT sound similar.
 

Grendel2000

Silver Supporting Member
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1,734
Well, if anything, you could keep an eye out for a decent deal on a used DMM XO and then send it in for the Tweak mods. Looks like they're still on offer via AnalogMan here. I really think it's worth it. I've only compared it to a non modded 1100-TT though.

@ruger9 I'll try to remember to post my thoughts here. And maybe I'll setup a looper to make a quick recording comparison as well.
SUCCESS!

I woke up this morning and randomly browsed the emporium only to find a DMM XO with all the AM mods loaded with the xvive MN3005, but with the original MN3008 chips too (in a baggie)! I snagged it, so it looks like I'll finally get to scratch my DMM itch!

This says it had the mods and was calibrated by AM. Question: if I were to try the MN3008 chips in it would that require a new/different calibration or do the chips have nothing to do with the parts of the circuit that's being calibrated?
 
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Slideman

Member
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1,686
I have an Analogman Bigbox DMM and a 500-TT with Panasonic Chips. Sonically they are incredibly close....I would say that the delay repeats on the Bigbox swirl and decay longer, while the 500-TT fade out sooner. However, I find the modulation on the 500-TT to be more pronounced in a good way.
 

stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,849
SUCCESS!

I woke up this morning and randomly browsed the emporium only to find a DMM XO with all the AM mods loaded with the xvive MN3005, but with the original MN3008 chips too (in a baggie)! I snagged it, so it looks like I'll finally get to scratch my DMM itch!

This says it had the mods and was calibrated by AM. Question: if I were to try the MN3008 chips in it would that require a new/different calibration or do the chips have nothing to do with the parts of the circuit that's being calibrated?
Congrats. I saw that this morning but didn’t want to spend a bunch of money putting the mn3008’s back in like I know I would. Probably best to leave it as is. I doubt we could tell the difference by ear.
 
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Grendel2000

Silver Supporting Member
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1,734
Congrats. I saw that this morning but didn’t want to spend a bunch of money putting the mn3008’s back in like I know I would. Probably best for someone that is cool with the Chinese chips. I doubt we could tell the difference by ear.
Thanks - so are you saying a new calibration would be required to put the 3008 chips back in?
 

InkStained

Member
Messages
4,144
I bought a big box DMM last month, and I have to admit to being a bit underwhelmed as well given the exalted status it has here. Very nice pedal and a recognizable, classic tone, but it doesn't blow me away like I'd hoped. Maybe I need more time with it, but for instance, my Maxon AD-202 rack unit was love at first strum. The delay time in the DMM is also really a bit too short for me.

It's a classic pedal -- but it has real shortcomings. Short delay times, a bit of white noise (which you won't hear in a band context or in recordings). And its praises are a bit too enthusiastically sung, which lead to unrealistic expectations.

Still, it's on my short list of pedals I won't be getting rid of.
 

Dlpz87

Member
Messages
129
SUCCESS!

I woke up this morning and randomly browsed the emporium only to find a DMM XO with all the AM mods loaded with the xvive MN3005, but with the original MN3008 chips too (in a baggie)! I snagged it, so it looks like I'll finally get to scratch my DMM itch!

This says it had the mods and was calibrated by AM. Question: if I were to try the MN3008 chips in it would that require a new/different calibration or do the chips have nothing to do with the parts of the circuit that's being calibrated?

Nice find! I hope you enjoy it! And yes, you'd need to get it re-calibrated if you put different chips in.
 

lofibrian

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
890
Got it - thanks!

this is correct it would need a realignment for the mn3008’s which wouldn’t cost too much. I bought another mn3008 xo I was going to send into have both on my board for short and long delays. How extreme!!!

But then I got a 1100tt.
 

ahoyhoy

Member
Messages
80
Hi guys, thought I’d post in here rather than start a new thread. Is anyone able to give me more info on the DMM XO I just bought. I’m not sure of the year but it appears to have two MN3008 chips and two that have nothing on them. I thought all MN3008 units came with 4. Any info would be great. Thanks
 

J-Flanders

Member
Messages
344
From the kinda blurry photo I gather 2 Panasonic MN3008 with the [M] logo for Matsushita.
The other two could be part of the lot that EHX bought as being/labeled MN3005 but which turned out to be MN3008 afterwards.
Maybe they sand off the incorrect MN3005 printing on the chips to avoid confusion?

Edit: Reading on aNaLoG.MaN's site it appears they also put in those 'fake' chips without sanding off the incorrect label:
EHX thought they could make a bunch, but most of the MN3005 chips they bought turned out to be fakes- relabeled MN3008 chips, with half the delay time. So they came out with the 550-TT model in 2012, using four MN3008 chips for 550mS of delay time. The circuit seems to be about the same as the normal DMM with the addition of digital circuitry to control the pedal. So they sound about the same as any other DMM, with differences mostly due to calibration or tolerances. Some 550-TT pedals may appear to have MN3005 chips, but those are usually the relabeled MN3008.
 
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ahoyhoy

Member
Messages
80
From the kinda blurry photo I gather 2 Panasonic MN3008 with the [M] logo for Matsushita.
The other two could be part of the lot that EHX bought as being/labeled MN3005 but which turned out to be MN3008 afterwards.
Maybe they sand off the incorrect MN3005 printing on the chips to avoid confusion?

Edit: Reading on aNaLoG.MaN's site it appears they also put in those 'fake' chips without sanding off the incorrect label:

Thanks mate I appreciate the info
 

Brian Gilmour

Member
Messages
1,411


With the XO being discontinued in favor of the new Nano version I snagged another one up the other day. Sold my original last year and regretted it. I assume these are the NOS Japanese MN3008 chips in this model?

Edit: correct pic inserted
 
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ruger9

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,182


With the XO being discontinued in favor of the new Nano version I snagged another one up the other day. Sold my original last year and regretted it. I assume these are the NOS Japanese MN3008 chips in this model?


Open it up and find out. Mine has the Panasonic MN3008s in it.

DMM.jpg
 




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