Do any of these modelers have the feel of tubes yet?

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Russ73, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. Russ73

    Russ73 Member

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    I want the consistency and ease of a digital or solid state but have any of them gotten the feel down? keep in mind Ive never played an axe or kemper so if this is a stupid question I apologize....for my cover band Im playing through a pedalboard into a ss power, but when I plugged into my 5153 mini today through a 212, it was pure inspiration!
     
  2. FPFL

    FPFL Member

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    No, I haven't burned my hand accidentally moving a laptop the way I once did moving a just powered down head off stage in the dark and in a hurry. Not there yet with that... feel.

    Otherwise yes.
     
  3. Bravin Neff

    Bravin Neff Member

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    The feel? Here's how I feel about it:

    1. You can chase the feel unicorn. Even the tube amps come up short.

    2. You can chase the tone unicorn. Everything comes up short.

    Or you can just play your guitar and laugh at how much time you squandered chasing unicorns that by their nature cannot be found.
     
  4. davetone

    davetone Member

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    It's probably because while you were wrapping up cords, the laptop had enough time to cool down.
     
  5. lukeII

    lukeII Supporting Member

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    Yes but it is the tone and feel of a miked tune amp that they reproduce. A Kemper or Axe through monitors or PA is not going to sound like the amp was behind you if that makes sense
     
  6. dgallina

    dgallina Member

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    If the primary requirements ar interactive feel and live organic sound the answer is still no.

    If you want the recorded sound to be very similar and you're ok with playing something that's interactively a little sterile the answer is yes.
     
  7. gumtown

    gumtown Member

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    The old Vox Tone Labs have real tubes in them.
     
  8. Russ73

    Russ73 Member

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    what im really referring to is that sensitivity and crispness and spank, but hell yeah I agree about moving you head off a cab in minutes, that why I use a floorboard efx/amp sim for my coverband stuff, and it doesn't sound great or feel great, so I guess I was curious if the axe or kemper had that thing we all love...or even better a cheaper alternative.....
     
  9. SteveO

    SteveO Member

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    The biggest effect the tube has in those is in the marketing of them.
     
  10. AdamSH89

    AdamSH89 Member

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    Check out two notes products. A lot of folks say that's one of the major selling points of their products.
     
  11. gumtown

    gumtown Member

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    I should correct that to say they have 'a' real tube.

    Much of the newer MFX do have a tubesque type feel, some even add the old vintage power supply hum.
     
  12. FPFL

    FPFL Member

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    BTW, I love how we say the feel of a tube amp like its a thing.

    You mean the feel of a modern Marshall head not turned up past 5? Stiff, dead and two dimensional? It can do that!

    Maybe you mean a sagged out, juicy Bogner? They can do that.

    What about a Fryette or a Mark II leaping notes off the fretboard making every mistake clear as glass? They can do that.

    Thru a good FRFR rig, the better modellers can do that. Its not hard anymore frankly but the generations of marketing and bias will take years to wash away.
     
  13. eriwebnerr

    eriwebnerr Member

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    OP - I would say that there is a difference between "feel" and a better setup. Tubes may or may not be the reason for the better tonal response.

    IMO the higher end modelers (Axe and Kemper) definitely have the most genuine feel in terms of picking nuance, harmonic complexity, and response to volume changes etc. However, I personally have found that a large part of the "feel" depends on your power amp - especially if you are playing into a guitar cab. Any old Solid State amp just isn't going to give you that realism. Again IMO - you want a nice linear / transparent power amp if you were amplifying a modeler through a PA type speaker. But through a guitar cab I think a little color and punch is needed to make it really feel like an amp.

    That's why I really like the Quilter stuff for this. Matrix and Fryette also have offerings many like as well. Short of that I would actually recommend a tube power amp (rack) used with a digital or SS front end than the other way around - tube preamp and SS power amp.
    Just my 2 cents :)
     
  14. Russ73

    Russ73 Member

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  15. Bravin Neff

    Bravin Neff Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself. I've had some great tube amps, current one for the last few year is a Fender custom shop Bassbreaker. It does the bassman thing but with tighter bottom end due to 12" speakers. It sounds great, but its not magic. There is no actual, real "feel" to it, its just air vibrations and the feedback circuit to the brain via the hearing mechanism.

    The Zoom G3 does the same thing, and surprisingly well.
     
  16. davetone

    davetone Member

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    It's not a FRFR speaker, but I have really enjoyed playing pedals into a Yamaha THR10C through the Tech 21 Power Engine 60. To me, it's been really good for my needs, and I like the feel of the Power Engine as well in the limited live playing I've done with it.
     
  17. benifin

    benifin Supporting Member

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    Have been buying and playing cheap and expensive all Tube [mainly] Class A amps for nearly 40 years.

    Very many cheap ...... very many mega $$$ boutique amps.

    Just migrated everything over to a Kemper - couldn't be happier.

    If the 5153 mini is right for you - USE IT !!!!!!!!!!!! ..... period !!!! :)

    But ...... all tube amps guarentee you nothing in terms of tone, consistency, feel, reliability, quality, inspiration etc...... its ... that ... simple !

    Amps - be they tube or solid state or hybrid or digital-modellers [ Kemper, Axe ] either sound great or sound crap or somehwere inbetween.

    Always listen with your ears .... never your eyes or spec sheet or TGP reputation or price tag or boutiqeness :)

    Ben
     
  18. Michael_V

    Michael_V Supporting Member

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    Word.
     
  19. ballhawk

    ballhawk Supporting Member

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    I've spent so many years debunking this that I'm tired of doing it.

    Any reasonable amount of time doing a search will reveal to anyone who is interested how the tube is employed. It's still very innovative.

    You can argue that they didn't achieve the goal but to say that the tube was just tinsel on the tree is not correct.

    The TL still beats out many of the new modelers when it comes to fundamental feel and tone. I imagine the kemper and the axe are exceptions but I have no personal experience with them. The TCAB was the first thing to come along that was as good if not better.

    I suspect we are at a point in time where the next leaps are coming.
     
  20. MKB

    MKB Silver Supporting Member

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    If in your gig you have very low stage volumes and a PA to amplify the tone to the audience, and IEM's, I can't imagine how you could get better results with a tube amp than with many modelers. At very low volumes it is very difficult to get a tube amp to sound as good as a modeler (and not just the Kemper or Fractal units, many Line 6 units as well).

    IMHO if you are on stage with the amp and are in a situation where you can crank the tube amp enough for it to open up and start singing, I haven't heard a modeler that can truly recreate that experience. IME it is not simple to get a modeler to sound and feel great at loud stage volumes without dedicated speaker systems. Often standard wedge monitors color the tone too much and you miss the clarity and dynamics of a great all tube amp with well matched speaker.

    I have had very good results with a Marshall JMD series modeler on stage at high volumes, but that is a dedicated combo amp system. It will do the Marshall tones well, but will not do Fender type cleans.

    That being said, I have heard well recorded modeling tones that rival most anything I have heard from recorded all tube amps.
     

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