1. A proposal is now up as a poll to change the guidelines of TGP to only allow member self-deleting of post/threads for up to thirty days of the original posting it. We are now watching the poll here. Click here to view the thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Do You Like Outside Playing?

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by ColorBlindJames, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. ColorBlindJames

    ColorBlindJames Supporting Member

    Messages:
    669
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Location:
    Eastern Tennessee
    I bought the latest Oz Noy album earlier this week and I've listened to it several times and, overall, I like about 95% of it. The 5% I don't like is the part in seemingly every song where, for several bars, he just rips off these long runs of outside playing that, while technically impressive, sound like chaos and nonsense.

    99% of the song has a great groove and tasty playing, only to be interrupted by skronk and noise that comes out of left field and seems entirely out of place. I admit that it's a small thing and entirely personal, but I find it annoying and distracting and I have never understood the appeal of such playing.

    Can someone clue me in on the purpose or appeal of this sort of thing? I'm more than willing to be corrected if I'm just some ignorant dilettante who has no idea what he's talking about. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  2. iamdavea

    iamdavea Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,585
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA.
    I'm not sure many people like "skronk and noise". I don't. I once asked Brett Stine, the incredible guitar player from the great Shrapnel band Haji's Kitchen, to explain if Allan Holdsworth's playing was more "in" or more "out" (because it sounds mostly "out" to me), and Brett politely said (this was on Facebook), "I'm afraid it would take too long to explain." Fair enough. I think Greg Howe does a GREAT job of "going out" and making it entirely musical, keeping it melodic, but adding that "spice" or "friction" element that can be so cool.

    I don't think many people think he goes "out", but I've read a fair bit about Eric Johnson's poly-tonal approach to (mostly) pentatonic soloing, and it's always amazed me how he can flow through a few different key centers, in the same long line, and always sound "in". Because when I try it, it doesn't sound as coherent!
     
  3. Chrome Dinette

    Chrome Dinette Member

    Messages:
    14,415
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I have many records that folks on here might call "out" in their entirety. On the other hand, I like music that isn't out, as well.
     
  4. Whiskeyrebel

    Whiskeyrebel Supporting Member

    Messages:
    26,979
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Location:
    Center Line MI
    I like it better on tonal instruments than on percussion. I can't tolerate nonrhythmic drumming. not even for a short while.
     
    Phletch, Frankee and forgivenman like this.
  5. Chrome Dinette

    Chrome Dinette Member

    Messages:
    14,415
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
  6. Carltone

    Carltone Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,442
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Location:
    Ohio
    It's kinda like sweet and salty together... Love it!
     
    shaun_mac, deeohgee, derekd and 2 others like this.
  7. marvin cobain

    marvin cobain Member

    Messages:
    1,518
    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    I don't think it's possible to generalize, outside playing can sound good, really good or awful exactly like the most simple pentatonic solo.
    I think I like it when I hear an idea and a logic behind, that's what makes the difference for me.
     
    deeohgee and rumbletone like this.
  8. ethereal cereal

    ethereal cereal Wave upon wave of demented avengers... Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    601
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    I crave it. Henderson, Herring, Holdsworth, Ford, Carlton all masters of tension and release. Dig those hip lines!
     
  9. gp81

    gp81 Member

    Messages:
    167
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    It is tension and release, a common musical practice used by great musicians for centuries. Oz Noy is a master of this, among the many other players listed in this thread. Broadening listening habits by listening to classical and jazz music is a great way to familiarize yourself with this.
     
  10. freedom's door

    freedom's door Member

    Messages:
    9,593
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    I like it a lot, but it depends on how the player is doing it.
    Joe Diorio is the master IMO of outside playing that sounds perfect in the context of the improvisation.
     
  11. slybird

    slybird Member

    Messages:
    6,127
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2014
    I'm not sure I can say anything. I love listening to Merzbow, Nurse With Wound, and Throbbing Gristle just as much as Motown and Stax recording. That said, I'm pretty sure a Merzbow break would annoy me in the middle of a Otis Redding song.
     
    weevilcaster likes this.
  12. rollyfoster

    rollyfoster Member

    Messages:
    12,257
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Location:
    Arrrstin
    Context.

    Sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it isn't.
     
  13. ripple

    ripple To keep fresh, keep capped & cold. Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,049
    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    I'm like a housecat staring out the picture window... can't get outside to save my life, but it looks like so much fun.
     
  14. cubistguitar

    cubistguitar Member

    Messages:
    5,406
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Location:
    Augusta GA
    Maybe some clarity is needed,
    some guys just blow noise, I like that when its done well
    some guys are immersive improvers that never come up for air, I like that done well too
    some guys are jazzers with some intense outside lines they practice a lot, I like that when done well
    some guys are Ornette Coleman
     
    deeohgee, cabrato and Chrome Dinette like this.
  15. Eric Rowland

    Eric Rowland Member

    Messages:
    8,989
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    ...done with taste and style and total mastery....
     
  16. wildschwein

    wildschwein Member

    Messages:
    3,772
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Location:
    Alkimos, Western Australia
    I dig a lot of outside playing and I love dissonance and atonality generally. It's all about context though and how it works in the piece. Coltrane did some pretty wild stuff on "A Love Supreme" -- pushed the limits of his instrument and tonality.

    This is a good place for a rock guy to start getting some outside sounds:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2016
    lestera34, cabrato, scr@tchy and 5 others like this.
  17. harry65

    harry65 Member

    Messages:
    2,161
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2011
    Location:
    sunny south florida
    I'm thinking you're probably an ignorant dillitante who has no idea what he's talking about:omg:thud:roll
     
  18. jimmyj

    jimmyj Member

    Messages:
    5,360
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Location:
    Brookings, SD
    Fifth House from "Coltrane Jazz" is probably my favorite Coltrane solo. You'll notice from the intro the bass and piano are just playing a pattern that includes the tonic and the fifth so you could play this as a straight as an early Santana solo on a latin beat or whatever you want. Coltrane does some exploring starting at about 40 seconds into the song.

     
  19. wildschwein

    wildschwein Member

    Messages:
    3,772
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Location:
    Alkimos, Western Australia
    That's awesome. I like the head on this one; a bit creepy -- has a Locrain sort of tonailty
     
    jimmyj likes this.
  20. harmonicator

    harmonicator Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Location:
    Central CA
    Yes, love it. Judicial taste is a requirement. Has to have melody. You can go "out" and still be melodic.

    Some of my favorites include Joe Henderson, Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyner, Joe Diorio, Jaco, Scofield, Scott Henderson, Phil DeGruy.

    I'm not interested in guys that completely abandon form, changes, repeated melody, groove, etc.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice