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Does an USA made guitar automatically translate into better "all"?

poppunk

Member
Messages
645
CNC machines just do some of the heavy lifting. You can’t put a piece of wood in a CNC and have a guitar pop out the other end.

the OP’s argument sounds like a rationalization of some sort.
Most of these makers have factory tour videos that will clue people in to a lot of the important stuff that still requires manual work by someone who is at least a decently trained machine operator. Does any manufacturer just take the neck cut out of the CNC? All the good production makers I've seen have people who manually sand them on a belter for a last pass (primary reason for neck variability). A lot of things still seemed to get shaped by an operator using machines. It's not this "put wood in, done" process it seems to be made out to be.
 

derekd

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
41,833
The oranges-to-oranges comparison is impossible because there *is* no 'oranges-to-oranges' comparison. That's not a 'strawman argument.' That's *the point.*

Ok, ok: Find the Chinese/Korean/whatever equivalent of PRS/Suhr/Taylor, since you're big on arguments. We'll compare.
I've already done it. As far as arguing goes, didn't you challenge my post?

Huber, Roukangas, Springer, Teuffel, Vigier, etc., were some of the brands I mentioned upstream on par with Gibson/PRS/Fender.

Do you have experience with any of those brands?
 

edro

Member
Messages
854
Nothing wrong with ‘buy made in <insert your country>’... nothing at all...except maybe to some agendanistas. Personal choice.

As stated previously, purchasing an ALL-MADE-IN-<insert your country> is about impossible.

To say non-<country> stuff just plain sucks is ludicrous and infantile at best...

Cost has little to do with quality around this big rock. You can’t legitimately compare ‘stuff’ cost in my state to states like CA,PA,NY,NJ, etc.. Regardless of the blatherers. Is my state slave labor compared to above states? Nope. How much is a gal gas or a month’s rent where you live... Cost of living is way lower.....just like in other countries...

Some companies not-USA can probably trace instrument making farther back than when Columbus didn’t discover tish...

Some VMs and CVs stand pretty tall against most ‘made-in-<your country>’... and a lot cheaper here.
 

Fishermike

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
89
Seems like this has come up a bazillion times. There are high-quality instruments being built all over the planet. There are many other reasons that people choose to buy US-made instruments.
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
6,824
As we've talked about many times here, there probably isn't such a beast as an all US made guitar any longer when you consider wiring, hardware, pickguards, etc. That doesn't even include the tooling used to make them.

Most of us grew up when the superior guitars were made here. That's simply not the case any longer and hasn't been for a while. However, nationalism can be a strong emotion, and confirmation bias is difficult for some to overcome.
Well said. My Samick Jupiter I told you about is so good. As good as any American. But was they all like that? I do not know?
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
6,824
And I dislike the word quality. Why? Guitar players have said and used that word so much. As a matter of fact I do not remember that word being used so much by people and family. Example I got a He Man toy as a kid and no one said how's the quality? Or we went to a buffet to eat how was the quality? Or bought a shirt, tooth brush or what ever how is the quality. Lol. :dunno :rolleyes2:
 

Astronaut FX

Member
Messages
6,857
Quality of any product is determined by a hell of a lot more than the imaginary lines on the globe that define where it was made.
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
6,824
An American made guitar tends to use better parts. A lot of imports use cheaper parts such as "licensed Floyd Rose" bridges. Plastic nuts. No name pickups. Which may or may not be bad. But still. And mystery woods. Here's the deal. Every time you buy a cheap guitar you just encourage them to make more.
The same with American guitars. A guy buys a bunch of machines and a building. He makes guitars customs. When you quit buying he goes away. But might come back.
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
6,824
Nope. Consideration for craftsmanship and quality control exists wherever someone takes pride in their works and wants to be their best, no borders. The only difference between an average American and everyone else is cultural bias, hubris, and false entitlement. If you're focusing on American import products made overseas, that's an intentional, premeditated business decision that talentless money-loving fools make to satiate investors and patrons into giving them their money...that profit goes to the American executives and other investors...low cost production, high profit turnover. Does ANYONE actually fundamentally understand of how this current economy works?
:aok
 

Alanko

Member
Messages
201
US built solid electric guitars were probably better in the '50s and '60s. by the '70s though, do you really want to compare a CBS-era Fender or Norlin Gibson with the stuff Framus and Hagstrom were coming up with?
 

Yamaha 350

Member
Messages
6,824
OK when Gibson dose a crappy job and the guitar is posted here dose it reflect on the worker as not skilled and poorly trained? Or dose it mean they had a bad day, thought about getting drunk and seeing the coworker instead of the wife? The same with the other workers in the other countries. And yes they use cheaper parts and pay lower wages to the workers. But the myths. Kids getting their back beat with a whip and other things is lies. You was not their have no proof and did not see it. :rolleyes2: :dunno


Dose price mean quality now days? No. TGP says yes I can hear it, see it, and feel it with my hands. Some say I grew up with cheap and medium priced gear and I want expensive gear. Yes I understand and get it. Some say I grew up with expensive and want custom shop guitars. No more off the rack guitars for me. I understand and get it. :aok:drool

I have guitar's in different price ranges. I no longer work health issues and no Fort Knox in my house. I get expensive used or free from my parents as a Christmas gift. My aunt said it best no guitar is worth a 1000 dollars. My family feels the same way. I do not but cannot change their minds. :spit

So you can get a cheaper guitar and a really nice amp now days. And get almost the same exacta tone. If you know how to play. In todays world you buy expensive because you want expensive. Like I just got this expensive guitar used. And I love it. And also love my cheap Samick made Jupiter reissue. It is as good as any expensive to me anyways. :drool:aok

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Golem

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
507
I mean the answer is obviously not. Back in the day, there were some very cheap poorly made USA instruments out there. An even some models that weren't meant to be cheap have been shown to have quality issues. For example, I'd rather have a brand new MIJ Ibanez Prestige AZ than the average MIA CBS era strat or a modern Player's edition Gretsch vs a vintage Gretsch that I think might need a neck reset and the binding fixed.
 

dazco

Member
Messages
14,027
Common sense and logic tell me that it's ME that determines how good or bad it is, not the country of origin or price. And other method is foolish and will have you making mistakes in either direction.
 

Davy

Member
Messages
1,385
Great. I'm glad you've found a non-American instrument you like (although from your perspective, it may not be a foreign instrument at all.)

I'm betting your EU producer adheres to labor-quality-environmental standards that are similar to American OSHA-EPA-standard/ domestic expectations.

And you didn't say what model you owned, but I bet you thought you were paying for quality and were willing to do it. And that's my point.

Since we're talking about similarly adorned/spec-ed instruments, I'd be happy to compare US vs. off-share at this level, as well.
I did mention the Brook model, it's a Taw, but I also have a Chinese made Cordoba C9 Classical which is fantastic as well. It sounds and plays great and the build is flawless. I've also owned an Eastman that easily matched a Martin D18 I owned in sound and quality for half the price. I sold the Martin. Your belief that only US guitars are of high quality is patently not true.

When people aren't blinded by jingoism or some imagined American exceptionalism they can find a lot of high quality guitars made all over the world.
 

BillyO

Member
Messages
190
Where I think it gets interesting is with the top of the line models from X foreign country vs the budget line American made models

In those cases, I think the claim that the better components are reserved for American made don’t really hold up.

For example, if you’re talking about the $900 Mexican fender vs the $1150 American fender, I think there’s a good chance the Mexican fender is actually using higher quality components

Then it comes down to labor. Is the American factory worker who is working on the cheapest American models likely to be the highest or lowest skilled worker in that factory?

What about in the Mexican factory with the higher end Mexican model? Bottom tier worker or higher tier worker for that factory?

You can ask the same question about Indonesia where the cost of labor is even lower

Bottom line, unless you are looking at higher end American models, I think it’s questionable that you’re actually getting a higher quality instrument
 

Well Done

Member
Messages
515
Th
As we've talked about many times here, there probably isn't such a beast as an all US made guitar any longer when you consider wiring, hardware, pickguards, etc. That doesn't even include the tooling used to make them.

Most of us grew up when the superior guitars were made here. That's simply not the case any longer and hasn't been for a while. However, nationalism can be a strong emotion, and confirmation bias is difficult for some to overcome.
This post should be pinned to the front page.
 

Alan Wolf

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
193
To me, what really differentiates a good guitar from a great one is fretwork. I have not seen EBMM or PRS level fretwork on any import guitars. If you know of any import brands that do (on a consistent basis), I’d be curious to know who they are.
Lowden certainly does.

I wouldn’t put PRS at the top of the heap, in any case, not with smaller companies like Grosh and Collings turning out fretwork pretty consistently at a level that PRS and MM don’t quite get to.
 

Rmccamey

Member
Messages
112
Popcorn....

Another thread that has devolved into useless oblivion until there is some collective agreement on the meaning of the term "quality" with regard to the subject matter at hand.
 




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