Does Blackfacing a Silverface really destroy the resale value?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by JoshuaTSP, May 14, 2008.

  1. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    I saw another thread and it got me thinking....

    Will modding a silverface Fender to black face specs really reduce it's value?
     
  2. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

    Messages:
    30,036
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Sterling, VA (not far from Washington DC)
    There is no correct answer. It depends on the buyer. In many cases it would probably enhance the value.
     
  3. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    So if it's done properly, it can enhance the value?

    From what I can tell, modding vintage amps kills the value everytime?
     
  4. squeally dan

    squeally dan Member

    Messages:
    4,107
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    Huntsville, Alabama
    I guess a silver face amp that has been "black faced" is still a vintage amp & many folks would look at it as being improved upon with the blackfacing.

    Can't the blackfacing be somewhat reversed?
     
  5. MusicESP

    MusicESP Member

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2007
    Just be sure that you need to Blackface it. Some people do it, just because they think it's the thing to do, but some SF's sound as magical as there BF counterparts.

    I have a 72 SF Super Reverb, which sounds amazing. No way I would Blackface it, and risk losing that magic.

    PS. I did however switch to Blackface cosmetics, which look cooler to me.
     
  6. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    What's the limit to the mods before it starts to detract?

    I know some people wouldn't buy a modded vintage amp because it isn't all original. I've even heard things about the caps being replaced, as a bad thing.....yikes.
     
  7. SkydogFan81

    SkydogFan81 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,736
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Location:
    In the Mountains by the Sea
    I would def rather have a Blackface modded than a silverface
     
  8. mj07

    mj07 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,108
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Just yesterday I got a '69 DR That had been blackfaced by a man named George Webber (or Weber?). I don't know a whole lot about him or the mods, but I picked it up for close to a grand and feel I got a fair deal. Looking at the prices of even the late 60's silvers, I felt this to be a good ides. I've always felt that as long as no seriously irreversable mods have been done, and if the amps sounds better it will be worth more to most folks. Maybe just not the serios diehard collectors.
     
  9. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

    Messages:
    30,036
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Sterling, VA (not far from Washington DC)
    Anything that doesn't involve drilling holes can be reversed.

    It's all in the eye of the beholder. There is no simple answer to this question. Also, the particular model may come into play. Amps that originally had "bias balance" rather than "true bias" are generally considered to be "enhanced" if modded to true bias.

    There are probably some buyers who frown on any mod. One reason for this could be that if there are no mods, there's guaranteed to be no shoddy workmanship that has to be redone.
     
  10. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

    Messages:
    30,036
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Sterling, VA (not far from Washington DC)
    That would be Gerald Weber, the author of several tube amp books.

    More likely, the work was done by one of his hourly employees.
     
  11. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

    Messages:
    30,036
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Sterling, VA (not far from Washington DC)
    Purely subjective and it depends on the buyer.

    Silver faces are less coveted and less likely to be subject to "vintage mania" where people would rather have all original amps that they just look at. God forbid they should ever plug them in because some of them might self destruct due to electrolytic capacitors that are no longer viable.
     
  12. voodoosound

    voodoosound Funk & Grooven member Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,124
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Location:
    between here and there
    I have never heard of anything silverfaced having its value depreciate because it was converted to the more desirable blackface. (as long as the person doing the mods knows what they are doing.)
     
  13. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    What should one look for in a modded amp?
    Certificate/receipt of professional modding or what?
    Would this make it more valuable?
     
  14. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    So why aren't folks buying up silverfaces, modding them to blackface specs and reselling them?

    Isn't the "tweed" circuit what is traditionally thought as the best sounding? Or the first version of the blackface circuit?
     
  15. Jon C

    Jon C Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,255
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    some of the best sounding DRs I have ever heard have been unmodded SFs, and a local shop owner I know who has seen many many many DRs says that 2 of the very best he's ever heard were SFs with the dreaded pull-boost (as he said, just 'cause it's there doesn't mean you have to use it, and it could be a great sounding amp).

    Sure a great BFDR is a thing of beauty, but you have to listen with your ears not your eyes and a good sounding SF can be, too, and may not need the BF modding to make it a sonic winner.
     
  16. mbratch

    mbratch Member

    Messages:
    2,390
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    Webster, NY
    In some cases, they probably do. The rest? Maybe they like them too much either before or after they blackface. ;)

    Tweed is quite different versus blackface. There are 4 generations of vintage fender amp circuits up through the 70's and they all have their own character: tweed, brown, blackface, and silverface.
     
  17. zzmoore

    zzmoore Member

    Messages:
    6,754
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    USA, California, 94585
    I deal with this exact same idiocy with guns. But it applies to cars, electric trains, antique furniture, etc. etc. etc. Just look at it this way. Would you rather pay $100,000.00 for a completely original 1956 Chevy, or $50,000.00 for the same car that was completely restored? Keep in mind the "original" Chevy has four, old, flat, tube tires that wont roll; a real old battery that is corroded and wont start the car; old drum brakes that are dangerous; peeling, rusty paint, an old crappy wiring harness; a speedometer that is off by 15 MPH when it works, no seat belts, no window washer, etc. etc. etc.
    Nothing lasts forever, things wear out and need to be replaced. If you own an old Plexi long enough, it will eventually have all NEW parts in it.
    No sense hiding from reality.:horse
     
  18. JoshuaTSP

    JoshuaTSP Senior Member

    Messages:
    640
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Location:
    Central WI
    What if you converted a 1976 Camaro to 1956 Chevy specs?

    :rotflmao
     
  19. mj07

    mj07 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,108
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Cool, Thanks!
     
  20. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,792
    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Keep in mind that "blackface specs" mean different things to different people. Rarely is a silverface amp truly set up to be the true equivalent of a blackface amp, simply because the power tranny and voltages are often different. Lead dress is also often not equivalent.

    "Blackfaced" amps usually end up being a mutant or some variation between SF and BF, and will sound somewhere in between. This uncertainty and lack of uniformity will sometimes result in less desirability than a stock version of one or the other. Nobody likes to reverse engineer mods to figure out what the baseline is.
     

Share This Page