D'Pergo Vintage Limited

Discussion in 'The Small Company Luthiers' started by Gilky, Dec 15, 2017.


  1. guitarpedaladdict

    guitarpedaladdict Supporting Member

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    Maybe the correct measure for comparison, which seems to be what some are asking for, is "attention to detail" where factors include, but are not limited to, sourcing the parts and wood, assembly, finishing, set up, and a number of other things that many of you could add. What a person will pay for this and what various luthiers will charge seem to be the individual variables that seem to go all over the place. I have a Ruokangas Unicorn that cost a fraction of what the new D'Pergos sell for and I can't imagine where more attention could have been given to any aspect of the build. That said, past a certain point, there are diminishing returns. Some may proceed onward, others might not.

    I didn't get the sense from reading any of the posts that people were offended by questions. I also don't read any arrogance or snobbery here. It certainly wasn't the intention of my posts. Jad57, if you could quote a post where you thought that was happening, it might allow for the author to clarify themselves. Throwing down the proverbial gauntlet challenging people to get their guitars reviewed doesn't seem productive.

    The last MIM Fender I owned I sold last year, I got a great deal of joy out of that guitar. I don't think D'Pergos are magical, but they are certainly really nice guitars. I'm also not wed to the idea that higher cost = better on a guitar. There are certainly builders who can build incredible and comparable guitars for a far smaller sum.
     
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  2. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    No argument with the owners of D'pergo guitars here. Just the claims on the websight that say they build superior instruments to the boutique ones currently available. Please read their websight claims and explain to me how they can justify these claims w/out any blow back from other fine luthiers or the public in general? I have no personal relationship with any luthier nor large guitar maker, yet I'm taken back at their claims. If I were John Suhr,Hahn,Tyler,Grosh etc I'd be incredibly offended and challenge them to a shootout LOL!
     
  3. sidekick

    sidekick Supporting Member

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    jads57 ... I am not a pro-player like you, although have played/owned from '66 and been an electric guitar enthusiast/player/hobbyist since then. ... Although not a wealthy guy, have made sacrifices re cars, etc., and because music /guitars is a passion, have been fortunate to have owned the mainly considered classic period vintage models from both Gibson and Fender, (other makes as well) together with various post '90's Custom Shop instruments/most PRS's ...and (like a number of guys here) various, (in my case) post '06 small top luthier builds, etc.,

    As mentioned earlier in the thread, a used '13 D'Pergo Limited came my way earlier in the year and that guitar has basically ended my individual quest concerning what I consider is the apex S style guitar ...

    Could my DP VL be improved? ... Yes ... I'm picky and were I to order one now as a personal build spec as my final S style guitar, the only two things I would personally change on my DP would be SS frets so that it doesn't need a re-fret during my, (as I suppose) remaining lifetime, together with it being about 5/6 ounces lighter in weight, (because of age-elated shoulder/tendinitis issues). ... Other than that, I honestly don't think it could be any better.

    Of course, all these things are subjective ... and (IMO) it all depends on where the player or individual is 'at' ... However, in truth, what appeals to my aspirations and current needs, are probably unlikely to be the same as yours.

    All I can say is you, is to try to have "hand's on" a DP, ideally to have a little time with one for a while, (like the OP was able to). ... I recall reading that visits can be made to D'Pergo, (assuming their location is reachable to you) to talk, play and discuss with the man himself... Because, as you have said, we are dealing with a very costly guitar.

    With mine, I bought mine used 'blind' without no opportunity to play, (a form of leap of faith) ... Prior, I had a fantastic Lentz S which also was the weight I prefer.
     
  4. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Why a shootout? What is there for anyone to gain by doing this? I have two beautiful Thorn R/S's, and I feel pretty comfortable saying that there is no higher quality instrument built. But...does it really matter? D'Pergo has what is on his website for advertising...to pull someone closer to shelling out the money for their product. Many manufacturers do this...you undoubtedly own something where the manufacturer did a variation of this very same thing....why get in an uproar over this specific instance?
     
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  5. beorn

    beorn Member

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    I don't think it would settle any arguments. Still, I'd watch the videos and judge for myself.

    If they did it right, as a control experiment -- kept the same amp, microphones, room, time, amp settings, players, cables, licks -- everything identical except for the guitars -- it might at least confirm or deny some basic differences between those specific builds. But I don't think we could conclude anything about the luthiers and their whole bodies of work.
     
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  6. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Problem is...with guitars too much is subjective to the player. What is the best tone...best neck shape,, etc.
     
  7. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    Why get in uproar, because that what TGP is all about LOL! In reality I get what you all are saying, and there are some valid points made which I appreciate. None the less, if I were shelling out that kind of $$$$$ for anything I'd want more than the builder's word for it.

    And while it can be argued "Finer Details etc. are time consuming $$$ wise, expensive reclaimed wood , especially figured wood isn't always better sounding.
    I will admit the more air dryed or the less moisture content,even roasting it usually produces better tonal results. But this is fairly common practice these days and doesn't add significant costs. Neck shapes, sure we all have our favorites. I've even found the Callaham Strat bridge claims to be true. They do ring more and sound fuller!

    A shootout in a respected forum,magazine with actual pro players such as Pete Thorn, and other like wise Pro Player/Demonstrators would bring great credability to anyone's product being demoed. In fact a roundtable of well know pros w/out any affiliation to the maker, would be the suggestion I have.

    Bottom line is when you (Websight) claim every guitar you make is superior to your competitors, you better be able to some how prove it. Other wise it truly is "Fake news!"
     
  8. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Seriously....it's just advertising...you just seem somewhat wound up. Why? No different than the local mom and pop restaurant advertising the best meatloaf in town...
     
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  9. beorn

    beorn Member

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    Sure. That's why I said
    Ruokangas did this sort of video, with all variables constant except the guitars.

    It was worth it to me to listen to it, and get an idea of how the tone compared to an assortment of Gibson guitars, one of which was a true '59 burst. Other people listening to the same video might have reached different conclusions, and I wouldn't argue with them, but the info was still useful to me.
     
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  10. guitarpedaladdict

    guitarpedaladdict Supporting Member

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    Completely agree and couldn't resist...
     
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  11. guitarpedaladdict

    guitarpedaladdict Supporting Member

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    Also, back on track... Congratulations on a stunning guitar! I love that color so much it makes me want to get mine refinished, lol.

     
  12. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    The difference is the Mom and Pop restaurant aren't charging 4 Star Paris,France $$$$$ prices for a simple meal/formula. But you're absolutely correct it's not something that affects me personally. But it affects people who currently or are prospective clientel, and I always am offended by B.S.

    Anyway Merry Xmas to all the TGP members !
     
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  13. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    :cool::cool::cool:
     
  14. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    It is a great green color!
     
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  15. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    Just so I'm not misunderstood: D'Pergo's website makes claims that they are Superior to other boutique makers as well as every guitar they make is Remarkable! So given these claims, how come you all especially the current owners or perspective buyers aren't intereted in actually finding out?

    If they had just stated we are Among the best and Strive to make remarkable instruments consistantly. I have no quarrel with that type of claim.
     
  16. 57gold

    57gold Silver Supporting Member

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    Does a wine that costs say $500 taste that much better than the $50 one? I'm not sure I could tell since I'm no wine expert.

    Most folks could. This summer visited Mouton-Rothschild in Bordeaux with my wife and two daughters in early 20s. My girls are not wine experts by any stretch, but they enjoy what we have at home, which is curated by yours truly - fine examples of reasonably priced wines in the $15-$40 range.

    At Mouton, they do a tasting and a tour of the Baron's art collection, which includes original art on the labels by Picasso, Chagall, Miro...after the tour they pour glasses of their three Pauillacs (all cab focused from vineyards in the same neighborhood) D'Armailhac ($65) , Clerc-Milon ($100) and Mouton ($650)...the first two, my ladies said were nice with the Clerc-Milon being a bit deeper...one sip of the Mouton, and the said, "hey Dad, I hope we are going to buy some of this...it is so complex!" Took them to the shop and pointed to the bottles for sale list and the vintage we tried was 600 Euros a bottle. They got their answer.

    Was the Mouton 12 times better than the D'Armailhac? Hard to quantify taste and then there are the budgetary realities. To some, my $40 special occasion/dinner bottle of Brunello is their everyday and $300-600 bottles don't make a difference to the bank account...the 1/2 of 1% that control 70% of the wealth.


    so, then submit your guitar or better yet have D'Pergo submit several guitars to the editors of Tone Quest,Guitar Player,Guitar World,or your choice for a real world shoot out.

    Already know what they would write. "Beautifully made instruments with meticulously selected features and hardware that delivers a unique tone. Amongst the finest of the fine, like Lentz, Gustavsson, Suhr...each having their own take on Leo's classic design. Players will have to decide which they prefer and/or can afford."

    OP, love the color you selected. D'Pergo has some other well-selected finish choices...guitars are art and to me the aesthetics are important, particularly in a custom build.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  17. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    57 Gold> Again it's the claim We're Superior that offends me. This is also true with a few other well know small builders. And since this a discussion forum, I think this is the proper forum to actually discuss such claims positive as well as negative. I also find their finishes and work to be attractive as well, just not the highest end pricing as well as unfounded bragging stated on their own websight.

    I guess I'm just saying "Prove it!" And I say this from hearing form several others that these are unfounded claims as well as they themselves selling their D'Pergos at a loss $. One is quite a collector of Michael Stevens, Danocaster, Collings,etc. as well as an accomplished proffesional who 's a good musician as well in business of collecting selling high end gear.
     
  18. 57gold

    57gold Silver Supporting Member

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    Dude, not defending the marketing BS...I believe I shared the fact that I used my personal judgement and did NOT buy one.

    As a Gustavsson BM and BM Semi owner, I chose to acquire an Astrocater. Just had to see what JG did to put his signature on a Strat style instrument. Glad I did.

    Plenty of guys out there who would argue that I wasted $s on the BluesMasters when I could have bought a custom shop LP or PRS for half the cost and not sacrificed tone and playability. Not going to argue with them. I am happy with my decisions.

    You still don't seem to get the fact that there is no objective "proof" when it comes to certain choices...no one on the planet could convince me that X guitar is better for me than Y guitar, without me playing it for a spell and gigging it a few times.

    Have seen videos of the guys who do magazine reviews, many can hardly play, and then they blab about tone and playability. So, who is going to do this authoritative "proof" that a $12K D'P is not as good as a $3K Suhr?

    From an economic perspective, buying any new guitar with the prospect of selling it is a gamble...like buying a new car, most will be worth 20% less when they leave the lot. That being said, buying a $12-14K Strat style instrument was a risk I refused to take.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
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  19. jads57

    jads57 Supporting Member

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    Points well taken 57 Gold! And even though I have owned real 1950's les Pauls from the Golden Era, I'm quite sure your Gustavson Bluesmasters are at least on par and probably superior to them as well.

    A couple of things to point out though, Gustavson and other fine builders are not making claims that are quite so bold or braggard like. As far as objective proof, I'm sure a roundtable of highly respected pro players and builders would be as objective as one could hope for. Isn't that what say Tone Quest magazine is all about?
    The videos I've seen do little to inform me of the D'Pergo guitars ability/tonality, since it's mostly amateurs showing off their $6-10k amp along with the guitar as well. I did try and find a video that TGM member Beorn recommended, couldn't find it? If there are any people could post I think it would be helpful.

    Thanks again for the discussion and I'm trying my hardest to keep an open mind,LOL!
     
  20. John Hurtt

    John Hurtt Supporting Member

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    Why don't you hunt one down and try it for yourself? Guitars are subjective...the only one that can prove/disprove is you.
     

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