eBay Feedback System Flaw discovered

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by ant_riv, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. ant_riv

    ant_riv Supporting Member

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    Hi and thanks for checking this out.

    I recently purchased a MiM body from a seller who had 100% positive feedback but two neutral, both for misleading information.

    The body was described as a mild relic with a couple of dents, scratches, cracks and scuffs and said to check the pictures for details.

    The pictures were hazy but seemed to confirm the condition and 100% feedback was enough for me to purchase.

    When I received the body, there was a 8” crack in the wood that traveled along the back, through and up, the side.
    The seller had used white glue on the white body to conceal the extent of the crack. In the posted pictures, the crack appeared to be a surface crack of the poly finish and not a structural crack in the wood. In person, without the haziness to conceal, the separation was clear.

    The first response from the seller denied the structural damage, so I sent photos. His second response changed from denial of structural cracks to a comment that they were disclosed. No mention of using glue to conceal the extent of the damage.

    So I left negative feedback for the seller for my first time after 19 years and nearly 1000 100% positive transactions.

    I expected retaliation feedback from him and so I checked my feedback and his today, a week later.

    My negative feedback was removed from his account!
    I contacted eBay to find out why and was told that he told them the issues were disclosed and so he asked them to remove the negative.

    I asked the rep to review our email exchanges and the attached photos showing the concealment of the structural damage which was clearly not shown in the posted photos. I stated that I wanted to provide accurate feedback about his concealing and misleading photos and description.

    She agreed but stated that once feedback is removed it cannot be reposted.
    She agreed the system was flawed and that eBay had not reviewed the emails or photos, to verify if the feedback was accurate. I had stated in the feedback that the pictures were deceptive and concealed the true extent of the damage. These were the same type comments that were left in the neutral feedbacks.
     
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  2. Badstrat

    Badstrat Member

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    You would think eBay would want to check with the person giving negative feedback to get their side of the story before removing it at the request of the seller. Answer is they don’t really care.
     
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  3. Surgeon

    Surgeon Member

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    This indeed sucks.
    I’m not blaming you at all but if it would’ve been me, I’d have thrown more of a fight and escalated the claim to ebay and they would therefore have seen the pictures and exchange. Again, not blaming you at all but I would (and do) refuse to lose money when faced with dishonest sellers and would never hesitate to escalate to ebay when this type of stuff happens.
     
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  4. ant_riv

    ant_riv Supporting Member

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    I agree that not doing my due diligence is on me.
    The warning signs were the hazy photos and generic description.
    I falsely assumed that with 100% positive feedback, I was dealing with a trustworthy seller.

    I can fix the problem.
    I am more concerned with the lack of trust that I now have for their feedback system as a means to uncover or report on deception on the part of sellers.
     
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  5. JCW308

    JCW308 Supporting Member

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    PowerSellers (I am one) have account managers who help in removing negative and neutral feedback if it is a legitimate case of retaliatory or bogus feedback. It is very easy to have feedback removed once you get to that point. That being said, in this case - eBay should have done their homework because it was a bogus removal. The seller can still be great but in this one case, assuming we are hearing ALL of the story, it sounds like they messed up.
     
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  6. ant_riv

    ant_riv Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the replies!

    No worries on my part regarding the whole story, as I understand that there are typically three sides to every story.

    The representative I spoke with agreed that my photos were clearly more revealing of the actual damage and the intentional cover up using glue as a filler. She also stated that neither our correspondence nor my photos were looked at prior to making the determination to remove the feedback.

    The representative was the one who told me that the system is flawed when cases like this present themselves.

    I am not worried about the details of the transaction.

    I’ve been 19 years on eBay and I never felt the need to leave negative feedback.
    The first time I do, it is removed, without consideration for the other side is my whole point.
    I was not aware that a seller could be proven deceptive and yet still have the warning to others removed.
    Yes, possibly if I had escalated to eBay this would have had a different conclusion.
    Since I didn’t and it has been removed, it can’t be reinstated and therefore the feedback is lost.

    Not trying to get sympathy. It’s not needed.
    Just wanted to share this because I wasn’t aware and expect others might not be also.
    The feedback option is something that can be manipulated and therefore not entirely trustworthy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  7. Surgeon

    Surgeon Member

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    Agreed. Trusting the seller is *not* (Imho) your mistake. It's more about how you handled it afterwards. Again, mistake might not be the right term. More of a "if I were you" thing from my perspective.

    Guess there's no better solution than staying vigilant.
     
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  8. tonewoody

    tonewoody Member

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    @ant_riv
    Did you start an official ebay dispute? Not as described?
    or just message the seller about the issue, then left feedback?
     
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  9. teefus

    teefus Silver Supporting Member

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    it is a common condition called reverbitis. where the business always sides with the seller from whom they get the profit and who pays the fees. nothing new.
     
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  10. Surgeon

    Surgeon Member

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    My experience with eBay has always been that they side (well, may 95% of the time) with the buyer…
    Not much experience with Reverb though.
     
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  11. ant_riv

    ant_riv Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the replies.
    To be clear, the point of this thread is not ‘eBay purchase gone bad.’
    The point is ‘eBay feedback system can be manipulated to remove negative feedback left by buyer if you know how.’

    I did not initiate a dispute. I acknowledge that maybe I should have.
    I have always felt that negative feedback was a last resort, to ensure appropriate disclosure.

    At the time, I was frustrated with myself for not doing due diligence.
    I contacted the seller initially to gauge response. I can repair the issue and returning seemed more troublesome than fixing it and moving on.

    His initial response confirmed, to me, an attempt to deny/minimize the extent.
    When I sent pictures, his story changed to ‘I fully disclosed’ but still did not address the cover up attempt.

    I did not ask for anything other than an explanation why it was not disclosed.

    Please understand, my primary purpose for this thread is to let others know eBay feedback is not entirely trustworthy as a screening method for integrity of sellers deals.
     
  12. timbuck2

    timbuck2 Member

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    did you return? NOT AS DESCRIBED?
     
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  13. Lonnie00

    Lonnie00 Member

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    GO CHIEFS!!!!
    And as for retaliation feedback, sellers have not been able to leave negative feedback for years now.
     
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  14. timbuck2

    timbuck2 Member

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    here is the truth: Even if you have no returns listed they can return it by using the -NOT AS DESCRIBED-
    You as a seller HAVE TO TAKE IT BACK OR REFUND THEM. You will have 2 days after recieveing it back to appeal. You pay for return shipping. It suks but many use the not as described to return items. If an item doesnt fit they cant return if you say no returns on clothing yet they can say not as described and you have to accept the return.
    I have dealt with this a few times: the last time was i sold a leather jacket that brand is a smaller /slimmer fit and i stated that with pics of all measurements on the jacket. So the buyer opens a return for NOT AS DESCRIBED and writes doesnt fit its a womans jacket not a mens. Well in the return i posted pics of exact same jacket from jackets website and 2 screenshots from support people at jacket company backing me up that the real hero is a mens jacket and indeed my jacket i sold is a mens. I called ebay and they agreed but said i had to accept the return and as soon as i get i should appeal within 2 days. Well i accepted and he said he sent it back but the tracking was wrong.So 1 week later i called ebay and they said the tracking was not right so closed it in favor of me. I implored the guy to just keep it and close the return and sell it on his own cause if i appeal and win he wont get his money or the jacket back after he returns it. He didnt listed and insisted the jacket was sent back and lost the tracking number reciept.
    Well i did get the jacket back 2 weeks later and didnt have to refund him any $$ but offered him a choice of other jackets i have but he said they were all likely too small. he is 6"1 and 200 lbs - i am 6" and 175 max.I feel kind of bad haveing his $ and the jacket but i warned him how this will end as i proved his reason incorrect- some people just dont get it. I like tight fiting moto jackets.
    Anyhow my point is that if you feel its not as described in listing then just open a return you will win if what you say here is true.
     
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  15. timbuck2

    timbuck2 Member

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    Also the seller has an option on certain choices of a return to do a partial refund so he could have dont that to cover repairs too.
     
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  16. ant_riv

    ant_riv Supporting Member

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    No. As mentioned, I have the skill to make the required repair. It has actually become a nice guitar.
    It would have been more work to return than to repair.

    Was not aware of this until I spoke with the eBay rep.
    I became aware of the removal of my feedback, because I was curious to see how he responded to it.
    I was also checking my feedback to see if he left me negative feedback.

    I have had sellers offer partial refunds before, and I typically decline if the seller seems genuine.
    I can’t recall ever asking for one.
    I supported myself, and my family, as a repairman for many years. There are not many guitar problems I can’t fix myself. I prefer to choose what I tackle, so full disclosure, integrity, matters to me.

    I love finding instruments that are undervalued due to sellers location and inaccessible qualified repair facilities. The seller comes out ahead because I happily accept the as-is condition. I come out ahead because of the ‘sweat-equity’ valuation. This item was not undervalued, but it was a 15-minute fix with on-hand materials, for me. For some, it could have been much more frustrating.
     
  17. Surgeon

    Surgeon Member

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    I'm not sure I follow you or what your story has to do with my "eBay always backs the buyer" other than maybe support it? I mean, your guy pretty much screwed the pooch hard on his return claim and you've just proven that unless a buyer does so bad, eBay will back them up… or maybe I'm just not understanding your point correctly.
     
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  18. 80tiger

    80tiger Gold Supporting Member

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    Just seems like the moral of eBay is that it’s a community and sometimes folks just don’t act right in the community. But that goes for CL, Reverb, dealing with other local players or, even, TGP. Although I must say I have never had a bad transaction here.
     
  19. skydog

    skydog Supporting Member

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    I thought white glue dries clear…
     

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