Echoczar vs. Dmm?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by loopjunkie, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. loopjunkie

    loopjunkie Member

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    I heard a comment from a well respected pedal builder tonight that implied that the tone of a memory man was better then the tone of the echo czar; which begged me to listen to all the clips again with studio monitors. I still don't know what to think? its tough to tell. Especially without it to hear live. so.......... to anyone who has one ....hows the tone and what is it comparable to? how dose it compare to a tape echo? and how are you liking it? P.S. I am on the list! and looking forward to my day!:RoCkIn
     
  2. morgan

    morgan Guest

    Both are nice pedals, although the echoczars build quality is pretty much unmatched. The echoczar (especially with the angel baby) does a lot more than the DMM. You can't beat the feature set. The tapehead modes are great (although they don't sound a ton like a real tape echo), many different settings and sounds in there. I think the echoczar's self-oscillation is better and more organic. OTOH, the DMM is a lot cheaper and it does sound good as well.
     
  3. loopjunkie

    loopjunkie Member

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    I already have a Howard Davis modded Memory man but I am looking to retire my H2O and put my memory man in its place and pick up the echo czar as my main delay. So what i am getting at will I be disappointed in the tone? The features are to die for and that's coming from someone with a heavily modded DMM. I just hope the tone is there.:confused:
     
  4. Enjoyer

    Enjoyer Member

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    loopjunkie,
    What sort of mods does Howard Davis do to the Memory Man?

    I purchased a True Bypass model from Anaolgman prior to the MM coming stock with True Bypass. I just won't gig with it because it gets some weird feedback going at inexplicable moments. I can't trust it. When she's good, she is very good, but I can't afford her quirks at a gig.

    I am on the wait list for the echoczar (a long wait, I fear) and I now gig with an aquapuss.

    From what I understand, morgan nails it pretty well in his post.
    Curious to hear from others.
    Thanks
    Enjoy!
     
  5. teddy boy

    teddy boy Member

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    Ex-DMM user here too. Now with a Memory Lane, on the list for an Echoczar...

    I miss my DMM a bit! Might have to get another one to play around with at home.
     
  6. BmoreTele

    BmoreTele Member

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    From a post by Howard Davis on HCEF -

    "I must thank everyone that posted here for their interest in my work. The pleasure of knowing it is appreciated is indescribable.

    The list of mods I do on the MM (which I designed) is pretty long, and I can do a few things not on this list - just ask if it can be done. Right now I have a bit of time as I'm between engineering projects, but I expect to be too busy for repair and mod work again in about 2 weeks.
    -------------------------------
    DELUXE MEMORY MAN "LESLIE" EMULATION UPGRADE - not just a simple mod but a whole new range of effects, plus an expanded range of the effects the Deluxe Memory Man already delivers.

    Who does not love that lush, liquid, rotating speaker effect? It is a complex combination of phase and amplitude modulation, hard to produce without mechanically rotating speakers. With this new upgrade you can now get it from your Deluxe Memory Man. You can set it for whatever rotational speed you want, and vary it from very subtle to so heavy it sounds like a rich tremolo. You can blend it with dry signal if you wish, and you can enhance it with feedback to get some indescribable, unique psychedelic and surf effects.

    As it comes from the factory, the Deluxe Memory Man has only two modulation speeds - very slow for producing the chorus effect, and one faster speed for vibrato. This new "Leslie" modification upgrades the modulation oscillator with an added MODULATION RATE control pot. In addition it changes the chorus/vibrato switch to be chorus/vibrato at one setting, and the new LESLIE ROTARY EFFECT at the other.

    Nothing is lost. Your Deluxe Memory Man will still be able to do everything it now does, and it will sound the same. What is ADDED is the ability to vary the modulation rate of the chorus and vibrato effects, and the amazing new Leslie rotating speaker emulation.

    DELAY TIME INCREASE MOD
    The Deluxe Memory Man was designed for a 550 msec. maximum delay. Some units, due to component tolerances and other manufacturing problems, do not have this long a delay time. A mod can be done that corrects this condition.

    TOTAL BYPASS MOD
    Most Memory Man pedals have an adjustable gain stage (drive level control) that introduces complications with total bypassing. This is because with total bypass, this variable gain can result in a volume mismatch between the dry (bypass) and effect-on signals when the footswitch is thrown. The level control can be set so the dry and effect-on volumes are equal, but this level setting may not be optimum for signal to noise ratio, which requires as high a drive level as possible without causing objectionable distortion - unless such distortion is desired. So you CAN have a total bypass mod done on such a Memory Man, but you then lose the ability to adjust the drive level exactly as you might want it and also keep the balance between bypass and effect-on volume levels.

    The reissue Deluxe Memory Man now comes from the factory with direct bypass, but with the input level control stage as it was originally when wired for buffered bypass. This is workable with many pickups, but bypass/effect-on level matching problems (usually overdrive distortion) often occur with hot pickups. For a corrective modification, contact me.

    INPUT IMPEDANCE INCREASE MOD
    Where total bypassing is not desired, a mod that increases the input impedance of the first stage can be almost as effective as total bypassing in eliminating tonal degradation due to pickup loading. If you use other pedals or long cables following the Memory Man, increasing the input impedance is preferable to total bypassing, as the benefits of buffering by the input stage are retained.

    WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE? MOD
    Tell me your idea. If it can be done, I'll do it! Contact me: howard.davis2@att.net


    NEED AN ALIGNMENT?
    Electronic products containing analog delay ICs have internal trimpots for adjustment by a technician. For proper operation these must be correctly set, and this is done at the factory. In time - especially with the rough handling that guitar pedals are often subject to - these trimpots can become misadjusted, resulting in distortion, excessive noise, improper operation, or no operation at all.

    It is impossible to correctly adjust all the trimpots - called "doing an alignment" - without using lab equipment and the proper procedure. An audio oscillator, oscilloscope, and the test and alignment procedure for that particular pedal are required, as well as technical training and experience. Attempting an alignment without these usually just makes the problem worse - and more costly for a technician to fix.

    The most common symptom indicating a need for alignment in the Memory Man is overdrive distortion occuring at too low a signal level. Clock noise, a high-pitched sound heard at long delay settings, is another symptom."
     
  7. threm

    threm Member

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    Loopjunkie, do you use fuzz/distorted sounds with the delays?
     
  8. Enjoyer

    Enjoyer Member

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    Loopjunkie,
    Thanks for the info. I think you just provided me a solution to my problem with my DMM. I'll give Howard an e-mail.
    Thanks, again!
    All the best,
    Enjoyer
     
  9. morgan

    morgan Guest

    Well, I haven't heard a modded DMM, but I really doubt you'll be dissapointed with the echoczars tone. The repeats seem a bit more full-bodied than a DMM, but still dark and organic, not quite as dark as an ad900 though, but they can be dialed in very close. It's been a while since I've played with a DMM, but the echoczar is an incredible sounding delay.
     
  10. Ed Rembold

    Ed Rembold Member

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    I mean no dis-respect to the DMM, Memory Lane, AD900, Moog 104, or any other analog or digital delay.
    but please......I would like to speak to the "well respected builder" who implied the comment.

    Is this possible?

    Thanks, Ed R.
     
  11. threm

    threm Member

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    I have all the delays discussed.

    As nice as the DMM is for those shimmery modulated semi clean delays it is really a lightweight sound when paired with OD`s and fuzz compared to the meaty and mighty sound of the Echoczar.

    A totally different league. Hard to compare at all.
     
  12. Enjoyer

    Enjoyer Member

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    Ed,
    PM sent.
    Enjoyer
     
  13. morgan

    morgan Guest

    Yeah, that's a better way of putting than I did. The czars echos are fatter and juicer, denser.
     
  14. otherone

    otherone Supporting Member

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  15. JKoeth

    JKoeth Supporting Member

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    Hey folks,

    IMHO...With no disrespect to the DMM, it is not even in the same league as the Echoczar. I owned a DMM for some time and was dissapointed in it's many weaknesses. WAY too much noise, easily clipped/distorted input that couldn't handle most of my drive pedals or fuzzes, not enough delay time and little control over modulation. The noise was the killer for me though.

    Enter the Echoczar w/Angel Baby. This is everyting I had been looking for in an analog delay and more. Anyone who compares it to the DMM has not tried any of Ed's products. I won't even list it's many features. The sound quality alone surpasses any other pedal type analog delay I've heard.

    Although I haven't tried one, I assume a better comparison would be the Memory Lane and the DMM. The ML seems like a great pedal and based on it's features and the sound quality of the clips, it should easily surpass the DMM too.
     
  16. Ed Rembold

    Ed Rembold Member

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    Thanks to those who took the time to private message, or email me.

    The "well respected builder" is Analog Mike, the posts in question are on his forum, the echoczar in his possession is on loan from Tom Hughes.

    There you have it...... Draw your own conclusions.

    I'm sure while one hand is doing the forum bashing, the other hand is taking digital pics from every possible angle, of all sides of the echoczar's pcb's.

    Now the long, long wait for the "analog man delay" may finally be over !

    (sigh........)

    small wonder I have no respect for cloners, no desire to build clones.

    Thanks, Ed R.
     
  17. analogmike

    analogmike Gold Supporting Member

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    I posted my honest opinion on the pedal here but decided to take it down out of respect, people will try it themselves and get their own opinions.

    No need to be so defensive, Ed.
     
  18. flicker180

    flicker180 Member

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    mike has forums??!?!?!!? where?!

    dave
     
  19. dm4501

    dm4501 Member

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    I have an Echoczar set to a slapback that is on all the time. It's part of my sound. It's very sweet, juicey and toneful. It takes whatever I throw at it. When I want a different delay, I have a few footswitches to use the second channel or Angel Baby. Nice product!
    It's booted my Aqua Puss from my board and several other pedals couldn't do that. It's a long wait, and not cheap, but worth it. Thanks Ed!
    Dennis
     

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