Echoczar wait time.....

jivebaby

Member
Messages
209
Anybody preorder and prepay for a echoczar?
I paid May 15th and I'm still siting on my hands.
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm getting the run around.
I got an estimate of 6 months when I bought it but now going
on 7 months he refuses to give me a completion date.
Last time I give anybody a penny before I see the product.


Mike
 

BmoreTele

Member
Messages
1,136
I'm pretty sure this is why he stopped taking deposits.

Now, people go on a wait list and he emails them when a batch is getting ready to be finished. Then they can pay or let their spot go to the next in line. Just like the Octron List and the KOT List.
 

drolling

Member
Messages
6,102
Yep. This is a pretty unique situation. The guy's making each of these units by hand. It's his own design and it's not like you can get it anywhere else. When I wrote him, he'd just stopped taking pre-payments, and told me that he couldn't guarantee delivery time even if I paid up front, suggesting that I get on a long waiting list.

So you're way ahead of the rest of us. I've got no idea when I'll get the call to send in my money. But when I do, I won't be holding my breath waiting for delivery. I've waited months for a lot of the gear I've purchased lately. For me, it's been worthwhile.
 

58lespaulman

Member
Messages
1,653
You wait, and you pay big bucks for this one though. I'm always afraid that I won't have the money at the time they call. How much is one of these baby's going for now?
 
Messages
1,010
I pre-paid on 4/29 and I just got mine a little over a week ago... SOooo worth the wait. Yeah, easy for me to say now, but it's true.
 

JKoeth

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,795
You a definitely not getting any kind of "run around". Ed is a total class act and is one of the most sincere boutique guys out there. Period.

You will not regret it!
 

jivebaby

Member
Messages
209
You figure with the capital he could raise via preorders/loan he could ramp up a little bit. He said he was doing some new products.... How about filling orders on the old products. If I was him I would go down to the local college and hire some EE with some sodering skills and ramp up production. That is what I dont understand. You got something good run with it.

Mike
 
M

morgan

Yeah, I wouldn't worry that he's trying to screw you or anything. He's a very ethical guy who always emphasizes quality over quantity. Once you get your echoczar, open it up and you'll see why it takes a long time. The thing is very very complex. The board takes up the entire width of the box, and is absolutely jammed with stuff.

That said, the wait is pretty long. But it's good he's moved to a non-pre pay system.
 

TaronKeim

Member
Messages
2,797
jivebaby said:
You figure with the capital he could raise via preorders/loan he could ramp up a little bit. He said he was doing some new products.... How about filling orders on the old products. If I was him I would go down to the local college and hire some EE with some sodering skills and ramp up production. That is what I dont understand. You got something good run with it.

Mike
I find this comment to be kind of ignorant if you look at electronics in the way of an artform. His own circuit design, his own proprietary technology and a delay that is something unique unto it self that doesn't really sound like anything else out there. If you were making a batch of 10 paintings that were all similar... would you hire a college arts student to help you do them, or would you want to carry your own discerning eye, touch and feel through on the whole project? I know my answer to that question, so what's yours?

As for the ramping up production, that doesn't work when all you want to do is make musicians happy by giving them a unique voice, its the time, effort and soul that goes into EACH peice that Ed builds that seperates them from all the other cookie cutter stuff out there.

And the comment about he should be filling orders and not working on new products, that was uncalled for, Ed's time goes STRAIGHT to all his orders, I was just talking to him about how he has had no time to work on his new designs BECAUSE he is so busy trying to get the last of the prepaid orders finished.

If this seems naive to you... that soul over production isn't a benefit, then there is nothing I can tell you. But I can promise you that you aren't getting the run around, that Ed will see you through to the very end to make you happy with your Czar once you get it, and after having it in your arsenal for 5 years, you'll feel plain silly for ever having ANY doubt in the first place.

-TJK
 

BrianB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
355
I think it's important to note that toneczar also makes his own enclosures, and he doesn't use any trim pots in his circuit, instead favoring scoping out all the bbd chips to match. You can't really rely on anyone else to put something together an effect like that without a lot of training. I know for myself, I'm extremely picky about the methodology I use when assembling pedals. All that said, dropping that much cash on something that you have to wait so long for must be pretty annoying :) I wouldn't doubt getting it though.
 

jivebaby

Member
Messages
209
I just want my pedal I paid for over 7 months ago. He is building a circuit not performing surgery. There are a ton of people who could lay out a designed circuit and build it. Just give me what I was promised up front or give me a new timeline for finishing it. If he was able to say 6 months in May why not a guess at a finish time 7 months later?

Mike

TaronKeim said:
I find this comment to be kind of ignorant if you look at electronics in the way of an artform. His own circuit design, his own proprietary technology and a delay that is something unique unto it self that doesn't really sound like anything else out there. If you were making a batch of 10 paintings that were all similar... would you hire a college arts student to help you do them, or would you want to carry your own discerning eye, touch and feel through on the whole project? I know my answer to that question, so what's yours?

As for the ramping up production, that doesn't work when all you want to do is make musicians happy by giving them a unique voice, its the time, effort and soul that goes into EACH peice that Ed builds that seperates them from all the other cookie cutter stuff out there.

And the comment about he should be filling orders and not working on new products, that was uncalled for, Ed's time goes STRAIGHT to all his orders, I was just talking to him about how he has had no time to work on his new designs BECAUSE he is so busy trying to get the last of the prepaid orders finished.

If this seems naive to you... that soul over production isn't a benefit, then there is nothing I can tell you. But I can promise you that you aren't getting the run around, that Ed will see you through to the very end to make you happy with your Czar once you get it, and after having it in your arsenal for 5 years, you'll feel plain silly for ever having ANY doubt in the first place.

-TJK
 

elambo

Member
Messages
2,363
I've dealt with Ed a few times and he's a great guy. There's no reason to worry. The pedal, even if it takes a year, is worth the wait.

From your post, it seems that you were given an "estimate" of 6 months, and now it's approaching 7. Pretty close. If you're feeling cheated, take Ed's offer to receive a refund and let someone else take your spot in line. People will be climbing all over themselves to get it.
 

Tim Bowen

Member
Messages
3,483
jivebaby said:
I just want my pedal I paid for over 7 months ago. He is building a circuit not performing surgery. There are a ton of people who could lay out a designed circuit and build it. Just give me what I was promised up front or give me a new timeline for finishing it. If he was able to say 6 months in May why not a guess at a finish time 7 months later?

Mike
If such is so, then hire said craftsmen for the gig, or simply build it for yourself. If such is not feasible, then wait your turn. Ed has been very much "above board" with all of his clients, myself included. The guy's not turning out fast food, and he's not out to "double dutch" folks, but he is, truthfully, a human being that is working very hard to please his clients. In fact, he works harder than any independent builder that I've been associated with, which would include quite a few; and, as I understand it, the guy has more work ahead of him than he ever initially anticipated, due to the sheer, unquestionable quality of his craftsmanship, in addition to the uniquely toneful nature of his products. As for analog delays, Ed's is the best that I've played, for what it's worth.

If you want the best, please be patient. If you can do without, there are other options.
 

jivebaby

Member
Messages
209
This is what he keeps writing me everytime I ask how long it's going to take. I waited 7 months and now I'm going to take a refund? Thanks but no thanks. I think getting a estimate 7 months in is not too much to ask.

Mike


Ed Rembold said:
Mike,
If you are frustrated beyond what you can recover from, please email me, I'll refund your pre-payment, and you will be free.
ed@toneczareffects.com

Very sorry,
Ed R.

P.S. Thanks to those who posted kind words.
 

StompBoxBlues

Member
Messages
19,942
jivebaby said:
This is what he keeps writing me everytime I ask how long it's going to take. I waited 7 months and now I'm going to take a refund?

Mike
Mike,

You are frustrated because you want it now. You can wait, or have a full refund, and that's the options. You seem to want people to jump on the bandwagon and start lighting torches and storming the castle, but it seems like virtually everyone here has only good things to say about Ed.
The frustration is understandable, I am sure you have been counting the days, weeks, and figured 6 months was "doable" and feel like one month over is "too much" but in that timeframe, put it this way...if I buy a pedal and I know the lead time is 6 months, it is such a long time that I also know the "slip time" could easily be a month or so. A guy says three weeks, you think "okay...probably 3 or 4 weeks". Ed has offered to give you a full refund if you feel like you were treated unfairly.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on on this issue. You can take a refund, or wait some more. You've heard that folks that got theirs say it is worth the wait. You also know you will end up with a unit that is really hard to get. Unique. Supply and demand...he may (or not) someday "ramp up" and go into production big time, but quality control, training, all that stuff is a huge step. Some pedal makers keep it like it is, and obviously he he has a long waiting list of eager customers. Some of whom would love to take your place in line.

The best thing you could do, forget about the pedal for a while, get on with life (as if you had taken the refund) and get a pleasant surprise in a few weeks or so hopefully. That's what I do. Ends up being like getting a present, since it's so long ago you paid for it.

I wish you good luck, and all, but you really aren't going to get the response you want here I don't think.
 

jivebaby

Member
Messages
209
Leg to stand on? Storm what? I dont care what other people think. I just want anyone thinking about buying one to know the real wait time is alot longer that the quoted 6 months and you will never get a straight answer about when the actual delivery time. Buyer Beware.

StompBoxBlues said:
Mike,

You are frustrated because you want it now. You can wait, or have a full refund, and that's the options. You seem to want people to jump on the bandwagon and start lighting torches and storming the castle, but it seems like virtually everyone here has only good things to say about Ed.
The frustration is understandable, I am sure you have been counting the days, weeks, and figured 6 months was "doable" and feel like one month over is "too much" but in that timeframe, put it this way...if I buy a pedal and I know the lead time is 6 months, it is such a long time that I also know the "slip time" could easily be a month or so. A guy says three weeks, you think "okay...probably 3 or 4 weeks". Ed has offered to give you a full refund if you feel like you were treated unfairly.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on on this issue. You can take a refund, or wait some more. You've heard that folks that got theirs say it is worth the wait. You also know you will end up with a unit that is really hard to get. Unique. Supply and demand...he may (or not) someday "ramp up" and go into production big time, but quality control, training, all that stuff is a huge step. Some pedal makers keep it like it is, and obviously he he has a long waiting list of eager customers. Some of whom would love to take your place in line.

The best thing you could do, forget about the pedal for a while, get on with life (as if you had taken the refund) and get a pleasant surprise in a few weeks or so hopefully. That's what I do. Ends up being like getting a present, since it's so long ago you paid for it.

I wish you good luck, and all, but you really aren't going to get the response you want here I don't think.
 

Teahead

Member
Messages
1,375
I got on the list very recently, just a couple of weeks ago. Ed explained to me very honestly and simply that the six month "estimate" of wait time was based on 50% of the people on the list passing up their chance.

Since I know how eager folks are to get these, I figure on about 20% of the people passing up their chance, at the most. So, I'm prepared for a year long wait, anything less will be a bonus. Anything more will not cause me to fly into a rage against the offset between supply and demand.
 

EL34

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,236
I couldn't agree more...I am on the Echoczar list, and I figure it'll be a year more or less. Same experience with Pigtail Music....great product, a true artisan, but the business/customer-service side is lacking. You just pretty much have to wait it out until the product is ready. Just be glad there are people out there bringing crazy good products to us impatient guitarists. :D It's a great time to be a guitar player!
 




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