Discussion in 'The Small Company Luthiers' started by datguytim, Jan 27, 2013.
Maybe he’s dyslexic.
I'm glad you spared me, because it wouldn't have gone well for you.
I assumed because you ordered an EPG that A) You actually received it, and B) It was good and you kept it.
I perhaps should not have assumed that you still owned the guitar—though to be fair, it's a reasonable assumption—but your stories for A and B could be interesting.
I, like many here, saw these guitars when they first came out. My good buddy (guitar player), a huge QOTSA fan, hipped me to them when Josh played them during a show, and asked me if I ever heard of Echopark and if I could see if I could find one for him. My buddy has the $$$$, but relies on me to help him buy gear because I am here and a few other places. Once I hit this thread, I shooed him away from getting involved with Echopark because, in my opinion, the owner seemed to be scamming consumers by taking their deposits, and then never delivering the goods.
There are government agencies and well known publications (Consumer Reports, Good Housekeeping, etc.) that act as consumer protection publications, do you send them letters protesting that they make consumers aware of poorly run companies that fleece consumers out of their hard earned money too?
where are "All the others"?
Of course, they would sell it for a loss it's a depreciating asset.
Custom builds are a fools game, too many variables. I found out the hard way.
"ad hominem, adv & adj: an argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining". There's everything ad hominem about what you said. In fact, that's the sum of your "argument".
I'm not sure you're doing EPG any favors at this point.
So Sport is the answer,
Don't you have one on the way?? "On the way" might actually mean "on a piece of paper on Gabe's desk", but in theory... you def have skin in the game here.
Both assumptions are wrong. I put a deposit on one which I’ve said a few times. To be technical, putting a deposit down on something does not mean I own it.
I choose, informing consumers to keep their money in their pockets or invest in a more reputable, responsible, reliable small builder that will deliver on the goods that were paid for in a reasonable timeframe with high quality.
My only point was that you do technically have a stake. Which you do. I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but it's important to have it clearly pointed out.
Let's ask potential customers who read this thread whether their $4-10k is "sporting" money, and let them be the judge, yes?
If you don't like it, feel free to ignore the thread or not read it.
I agree, Yes.
Let's stop focusing on each other, and get rid of the arguing. I'm as guilty as the next. Our issues should not be with each other.
The true subjects at hand are Echopark guitars, the quality or lack-thereof of the product, and the substandard customer service. The more we get away from that, the more Echopark can get away with.
I love the whole 'if you don't own one you can't comment's logic. It's an incredibly weak argument on a gear discussion page.
Personal attacks on Gabe are uncalled for. I think we can mostly all agree on that.
But getting called out for VERY sloppy builds and dozens of missed deadlines is fair game. I never have and never will order from him but I guarantee you that there are more than two people on this planet waiting and waiting and waiting for Gabe to deliver.
Some peopleay go a little fair on here but it's because we love making music, playing gear and discussing it. Many of us have had fantastic experiences ordering custom guitars and want others to experience that joy. Obviously there's a market to sell these things bc of people like us.
But when we see people tking advantage of customers like ourselves, charging top dollar for their work, putting out sloppy work and seemingly lying about turning things around we are going to call these builders out to try and help out others who are considering orders. I can afford $10,000 guitars but they better live up to expectation. I already know 100% that an order from Gabe wouldn't. So I've benefitted from this thread and I know others have too.
If that's a bother to his fans then so be it. He's not the first builder who has turned away from TGP after getting called out. And it's been for the better for us.
But there are HUNDREDS of credible builders who do love this place and do follow through on their promises. So we ain't all that bad.
And don't even pretend for one second that it's ok for a string to intersect with a tuner bc you saw one photo of a Gibson with the same issue. This is elementary sh#t. Who even knows if those were the original tuners. Either way he's putting out some high school woodshop level work at times and it's not as ok as a few of you want to pretend.
No one is saying if you don't own one you can't comment, I just want to get a sense of how widespread the issues are. Some folks have legitimate grievances while others want to sling mud, and some are here to warn others of issues they read about other people having.
So can we now take the opposite approach and ask everyone who has engaged in some form of Gabe/EP bashing what their stake is, as well? I’d bet most don’t have any direct stake in EP.
I was looking for a builder for a unique and custom guitar, and that's when I found this thread. I'm glad I did so that I didn't become one of those who are directly affected by it.
As someone that buys and enjoys high-end guitars, I appreciate this thread for helping me research Echopark guitars and decide never to own one. Better products can be purchased for less money.
Thanks to all contributors!