Effects Parameters - Helix and AX8 and Patch Creation

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by manatarms, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    I'm interested in both the Helix and AX8 and have asked some general questions about their effects and their parameters and what options are available and how one might go about creating certain patches on each. I did some screen captures to hopefully help ask my questions.

    A little background on me, I'm mostly a classic rock/blues and 80s rock/metal player. I play in a hobby/cover band. We do about 10 paid gigs a year. I've been playing for about 30 years. I've been using amp modeling units as far back as the Roland GP-100, which was my first modeling unit. I also used to have a full Scholz Rockman Rockmodule rack setup. I've owned a Line 6 POD, Line6 HD500, Boss GT-8, GT-10 and GT-100. I also have owned a Tech 21 PSA, Rocktron Voodu Valve and some others. Just mentioning those because I've had a lot of experience with different units and also with creating what I like for tones and what effects I like and what I like to be able to do with them (or would like to do with them.)

    I haven't seen very much, probably because it's so new, about the effects parameters on the Helix and the options you might have for those effects. I have seen more from the AxeFx side, again probably because it's been out longer. The effects that the AX8 has that the AxeFx has, from my understanding, are the same and have the same parameters. So I'm wondering how some setups might be accomplished on the Helix.

    The one thing I didn't like on the HD500 was that to get it to do some things effects wise that my Boss GT-100 did, it required a bunch of extra effects and or different routing (or I couldn't do at all) because the GT-100 had a lot of those extra parameters built right in. So instead of having to run a bunch of extra effects, I could accomplish what I wanted right within the one effect. The AxFx/Ax8 seems to work similarly where an effect has a bunch of options built into it, that on the HD500, you'd have to use a bunch of extra effects. I'm not sure if the Helix is more like the HD500 this way or the AxeFx (I haven't seen a screen showing the options, so I just don't know.)

    So here one example. I like the 80s Eventide style pitch detune effect (called micro pitch on the Eventide.) In the image below, you can see the AxeFx screen that you have 2 pitch options. You can set each one's pitch, pan, delay and mix.



    So my question for the Helix is, do you have similar parameters for the pitch effect? If not, how would you go about building a patch that would do that? Would it require you use a delay effect in front of the pitch block, and then how would you pan them?

    Another example is the cab block. With 2 cabinets, I like to pan the somewhat left and right to separate them, and then mix them. As you can see from the cabinet block image on the AxeFx, you get those option built right in to the cabinet block.



    I found an image of the Helix cabinet block's parameters, but I don't see the mixing part. Am I missing where that is? How would you pan and mix the cabinet on the Helix?



    Stuff like this might not appeal to some, or they don't want, and or care, about little stuff like this, but it is important to me. This is the type of thing I like to be able to do when creating my tones.
     
  2. tjontheroad

    tjontheroad Silver Supporting Member

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    Yes, Helix can do all the Pitch block functions as you describe. Helix cab or IR blocks don't have there own pan/mix parameters. That's handled by the way you route them along the A/B paths.

    Running Helix for stereo setup means paying attention to the the way things are routed. This way, it gives you lots of options.

    Btw, I care :)
     
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  3. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    That's great to know! So the Helix Pitch block has 2 voices? I know the HD500 had only 1. Do you by chance have any photos of the pitch bock parameters? I haven't seen one and would like to see it. Thx!
     
  4. tjontheroad

    tjontheroad Silver Supporting Member

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    I could do a screenshot later tonight. Funny, I was just messing with this last night trying to get close to my Keeley 30ms. Sounded nice but not the same.
     
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  5. Digital Igloo

    Digital Igloo Member

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    I count 13 parameters in the Dual Pitch block: Interval 1 (semitone pitch), Cents 1 (fine tune), Delay 1, V1 Level, Interval 2, Cents 2, Delay 2, V2 Level, Mix, Level, V1 Pan, V2 Pan, and Dry Pan
     
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  6. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    Awesome Digital Igloo! Thanks. That's an effect I'd been looking to see what was available, but could never find.
     
  7. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    So has anyone done a video of an '80s type tone with the Cents set to around +9 and -9 with some delay (around 20ms or so) and panning? That's in the ball park of the 5150 and up Van Halen tone. I'd love to hear how it sounds. Thx!!
     
  8. veritechc

    veritechc Member

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    Well Hello! I think I might be the right person to explain a few things to you as I have a Helix and a Axe Fx 2 Mark 2 which is very similar to a AX8.

    Below is a screen capture of the parameters of the Dual Pitch Block on the Helix:

    [​IMG]

    And here is that same thing from the Axe Fx:

    [​IMG]

    As far as panning the Helix handles it differently then the AX*/Axe FX. The Merge block on the Helix sets the pan. Below is a screen shot of that.

    [​IMG]

    If there is anything more I can put up for you let me know.
     
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  9. tjontheroad

    tjontheroad Silver Supporting Member

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    You just wanted to post that preset name didn't you? Come on!!! Admit it lol

    :crazyguy
     
  10. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    Thank you so much!! That's exactly what I wanted to see.

    So is the merge block per parallel path or per effect? My understanding is that on the AxFx, the cab block, for example would have it's own panning and the pitch block would have it's own. Is that how it works? Also it looks like if you're using one amp and two cabinets within that amp block, it doesn't split it into two paths, correct? Is the Helix different then in that way? Do you have to run each cabinet in a different path?
     
  11. veritechc

    veritechc Member

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    Of course I did. But it is also my newest patch. Its a toned down version of my Biggins patch with all the "hair" taken off of it. Hence the name.



    The Axe Fx uses a grid that represents the signal path only. The Helix represents both processors and the signal path. So in my example above all those effects including the dual cabs are in the first DSP and the signal travels left to right, split just after the amp and merged back to a stereo image just past the cabs.
     
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  12. manatarms

    manatarms Member

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    Thanks for the additional information.
     
  13. atquinn

    atquinn Supporting Member

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    Still confused. So are you saying that if you have say a cab and a pitch block on the same path, they can't have individual pans? Say I want my cab panned hard right and my pitch 1 panned 50% left and my pitch 2 panned 50% right. Is that possible?
    -
    Austin
     
  14. veritechc

    veritechc Member

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    Sorry man. The pan parameters were on the bottom of the page. You have to scroll down on the editor to see them. Here they are:

    [​IMG]


    As for your question: you can also set the pan at the output of the signal chain. So below is the settings for the Dual Pitch block:

    [​IMG]


    And then for the top Multi Output:

    [​IMG]

    Now I have no clue why you would do that or how it sounds as I am remoting into my Helix from work. But the Helix I think can do anything.

    Here is that same scenario with the Axe FX:

    Pitch Block:

    [​IMG]

    And the Cab Block:

    [​IMG]

    You can get to the same place with either unit.
     
  15. atquinn

    atquinn Supporting Member

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    Cool. Thanks for the info.
    -
    Austin
     

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